EU vote
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| PeteHodgson |  | ... | 18-06-2016 @ 00:39 |
 Has little understanding of the sugden Member 677, 11338 posts SQ 165, BP 125, DL 220510.0 kgs @ 80kgs UnEq | Wiegieboard said:Not all leave voters are racists but all racists will vote leave. I agree. But is that a reason to vote 'remain'? I don't know what to vote yet tbh. | ||
| unit94 |  | ... | 18-06-2016 @ 00:52 |
 what is everyone's fran time? Member 3986, 10449 posts SQ 340, BP 200, DL 400940.0 kgs @ 129kgs Eq | I'm actually getting a little bit worried that we might leave. Didn't seem possible afew weeks ago | ||
| John | | ... | 18-06-2016 @ 00:55 |
#biggef Member 5263, 3492 posts SQ 260, BP 195, DL 260715.0 kgs @ 130kgs UnEq | Post Edited: 18.06.2016 @ 01:08 AM by John Well I can't really see us leaving even though I'm voteing out but what I will say is I find racism abhorrent or any other discrimination for that matter and I think a poll that basically says if you vote in your bright,successful and Well just awesome really,where as you vote out your stupid and racist and basically some kind of national from extremist smells a bit fishy to me. | ||
| John | | ... | 18-06-2016 @ 01:10 |
#biggef Member 5263, 3492 posts SQ 260, BP 195, DL 260715.0 kgs @ 130kgs UnEq | Wiegieboard said:Not all leave voters are racists but all racists will vote leave. This also seems an inevitable truth which is a shame. | ||
| StevenFatty | | ... | 18-06-2016 @ 01:30 |
 My name is Steven , I am a fatty. Member 6048, 393 posts | I am not here to talk politics. But, if the UK leaves the EU, either my career is over or I leave the UK. For me, leaving means I leave. It is that big a deal. For too many people this is an opportunity to vote on something they know nothing about, for others, its its quite literally a radically life changing decision. | ||
| Rick | | ... | 18-06-2016 @ 07:48 |
 I am a bench-only guy Member 3, 10035 posts SQ 185, BP 175, DL 235595.0 kgs @ 140kgs UnEq Administrator | The data mentioned: [IMG]http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah29/rfbooth/Mobile%20Uplo... [IMG]http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah29/rfbooth/Mobile%20Uplo... No fish there. I sincerely hope the people who can't see us leaving are right. | ||
| danbaseley | | ... | 18-06-2016 @ 08:24 |
 A member for 10 years and still no mouldy peanuts Member 1252, 4479 posts SQ 160, BP 110, DL 215485.0 kgs @ 98kgs UnEq | Post Edited: 18.06.2016 @ 08:25 AM by danbaseley Wiegieboard said:Not all leave voters are racists but all racists will vote leave. This attitude really grinds my gears; regardless of what I will be voting. And is patently not true. The remain campaign has had hundreds of endorsements from various politicians, economists, celebrities, media outlets. In addition to this, there have been threats made with teeth bared about our position in the world/pecking order should we leave from everyone from the head of the EU; to Barack Obama. (Who sounded like he made this idle threat on behalf of David Cameron). Despite all this, Remain campaigners have also taken it upon themselves to label those who leave as far-right leaning crackpots; who are exercising their right as a way of showing how full of hate they are for their fellow man. In addition to this, lists appear daily saying the great, the good and the beautiful vote in; the lesser, the bad and the ugly vote out. So if you vote out - you are scum. If you think TLDR to this post that is fine. However, WillSan - a man who shares very little in common with me politically - posted this statement on Facebook the other day; and I feel it is the most important part of this tirade: "Apparently its a popular notion 'on the left' that the EU is some sort of benign left leaning organisation which counterbalances 'the right'. Don't be fooled. The EU is an anti democratic, corporate beaurocracy, which is the reason that the Tory leadership and Blair are joining Goldman Sachs, jpmorgan and the rest of the corrupt banking establishment as the biggest cheerleaders for the remain camp. If the EU was going to 'protect' you from the Tories do you really think cameron and Osborne would be peddling evermore ridiculous scare stories about brexit each day?" | ||
| macroth | | ... | 18-06-2016 @ 09:01 |
 no longer the Swiss Deadlift record holder Member 3517, 3368 posts SQ 182.5, BP 122.5, DL 255560.0 kgs @ 90kgs UnEq | danbaseley said: Wiegieboard said:Not all leave voters are racists but all racists will vote leave. This attitude really grinds my gears; regardless of what I will be voting. And is patently not true. The remain campaign has had hundreds of endorsements from various politicians, economists, celebrities, media outlets. In addition to this, there have been threats made with teeth bared about our position in the world/pecking order should we leave from everyone from the head of the EU; to Barack Obama. (Who sounded like he made this idle threat on behalf of David Cameron). Despite all this, Remain campaigners have also taken it upon themselves to label those who leave as far-right leaning crackpots; who are exercising their right as a way of showing how full of hate they are for their fellow man. In addition to this, lists appear daily saying the great, the good and the beautiful vote in; the lesser, the bad and the ugly vote out. So if you vote out - you are scum. If you think TLDR to this post that is fine. However, WillSan - a man who shares very little in common with me politically - posted this statement on Facebook the other day; and I feel it is the most important part of this tirade: "Apparently its a popular notion 'on the left' that the EU is some sort of benign left leaning organisation which counterbalances 'the right'. Don't be fooled. The EU is an anti democratic, corporate beaurocracy, which is the reason that the Tory leadership and Blair are joining Goldman Sachs, jpmorgan and the rest of the corrupt banking establishment as the biggest cheerleaders for the remain camp. If the EU was going to 'protect' you from the Tories do you really think cameron and Osborne would be peddling evermore ridiculous scare stories about brexit each day?" Even if whay you say is true, how does it invalidate what Wiegie said? | ||
| Rick | | ... | 18-06-2016 @ 09:06 |
I am a bench-only guy Member 3, 10035 posts SQ 185, BP 175, DL 235595.0 kgs @ 140kgs UnEq Administrator | When immigration is the dominant issue for one campaign, it surely seems reasonable to expect that virtually all racists would vote that way. Which doesn't mean that most, or even many, exiters are racists. I personally don't want to believe nearly half of Britain is racist, and I don't. Equally, I am not suggesting that all out voters are poor, insular, and badly educated - that is patently not true! - or that all poor, etc, voters will vote out. That there is a correlation, though, is undeniable. This may well be connected to the reach of the virulently out popular press. It is interesting that you characterise dire predictions about the consequences of leaving as "threats" rather than "warnings". Unfortunately, it seems to me that the likely near-term consequences of leaving are so bad that they look like they must be lies. You may ask why we're even having a referendum, then? My suspicion is that Cameron thought it would be easily won and offer a way of shutting up his critics on the right. If so, he had been horribly wrong; regardless of outcome, the Gove/Farage Tory/UKIP wing will be energised by their success. It is absolutely true that there are good left-wing cases to be made for exit. It's equally true that exit would be read as, and acted upon as, a crushing victory for the right of the conservative party and the soft fascism of UKIP. I think Richard Seymour (who is certainly well to my left) sums it up well here from a radical socialist perspective. http://www.leninology.co.uk/2016/04/erratic-marxism-in-its-lim... In summary, I don't think most, or even many, out voters are bad people, or that no bad people will vote in. I do think the people voting out are making a terrible mistake, but then they doubtless think the same about me. | ||
| John | | ... | 18-06-2016 @ 09:14 |
#biggef Member 5263, 3492 posts SQ 260, BP 195, DL 260715.0 kgs @ 130kgs UnEq | Post Edited: 18.06.2016 @ 10:17 AM by John Rick said:The data mentioned: [IMG]http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah29/rfbooth/Mobile%20Uplo... [IMG]http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah29/rfbooth/Mobile%20Uplo... No fish there I sincerely hope the people who can't see us leaving are right. I did type some stuff about britexiters not being racist or stupid , but I've just read your last write up. And can't now get rid of this quote lol, I come from a family that originally worked the coal mines and quarries in the Forest of Dean where in the 70-90s the government Decided to stop giving support (Thatcher),hundreds of pits and gales where closed leaving many out of work and unable to retrain,(mainly up north) these are hard working people that worked in filth and just wanted to earn a living they weren't racist and yes they didn't live in London or go to Eaton,but can you blame people like this misstrusting the government? Of course this does not just apply to the coal industry. I fear if I mention migration it might be taken the wrong way but,In Our village we have cuts to police,fire ,library,schools ,armed forces,public transport,hiking taxes and less and less return for example bin collections,safe roads,ahop and business closures due to strict bail out regs and with all this we have a huge inflow of migrants and I'm not talking the ones who want to come and work and prosper,and now our schools are crowded we have to build more infrastructure which costs the tax payer,we have not been given the choice about this,it's nothing to do with the colour of their skin the language they speak or their religion. I actually think Eu workers are great for the economy but I also think we should cap numbers and screen,check criminal backgrounds, also i think if someone is ignorant and uneducated enough to be racist I'm not sure they've got the get up and go to actually vote. I think if the campaign was ran as it was supposed to have been with equal information being put in black and white (not racist lol) On both sides and none of this last minute the world's going to do stuff I think people would be overall more open I for one would be more inclined to listen to balanced opinions. A civil war was mentioned which is obviously ridiculous but you have to wonder with person insults and hard line views would it be far from the truth? | ||
| danbaseley | | ... | 18-06-2016 @ 09:25 |
A member for 10 years and still no mouldy peanuts Member 1252, 4479 posts SQ 160, BP 110, DL 215485.0 kgs @ 98kgs UnEq | Post Edited: 18.06.2016 @ 09:29 AM by danbaseley macroth said: Even if whay you say is true, how does it invalidate what Wiegie said? Because it suggests that every person who is a racist is effectively powerless to resist the urge to vote out; regardless of their vested interests. Which is a load of crap. Also, the term 'racist' is used as the magic bullet of arguments; if I label a person, argument, or standpoint racist - well then I have won. Whatever happens, I have automatically "won". Because then all others who oppose my view, will then be seen as defending the indefensible; and the only people likely to do that are also probably racist. I mean, who would defend a racist, right?!? | ||
| Rick | | ... | 18-06-2016 @ 09:29 |
I am a bench-only guy Member 3, 10035 posts SQ 185, BP 175, DL 235595.0 kgs @ 140kgs UnEq Administrator | Boris doesn't believe we should leave, in my opinion; he spent much of his career strong against it. However, he does believe that if we leave he'll get to be prime minister. (And he's very very likely correct.) Of course he's far from the only expensively educated Leaver. Farage went to Dulwich College, for example, where he was described at the time by his teachers as a fascist and a racist. If course people can change. As to the rest, the difference between "more", "most", and "no" is critical when looking at this (or any) data, and you may not, from your response, have noticed that. | ||
| macroth | | ... | 18-06-2016 @ 09:47 |
no longer the Swiss Deadlift record holder Member 3517, 3368 posts SQ 182.5, BP 122.5, DL 255560.0 kgs @ 90kgs UnEq | danbaseley said: Because it suggests that every person who is a racist is effectively powerless to resist the urge to vote out; regardless of their vested interests. Which is a load of crap. Also, the term 'racist' is used as the magic bullet of arguments; if I label a person, argument, or standpoint racist - well then I have won. Whatever happens, I have automatically "won". Because then all others who oppose my view, will then be seen as defending the indefensible; and the only people likely to do that are also probably racist. I mean, who would defend a racist, right?!? I don't see how it suggests that at all. On the other hand, many of the arguments for leaving align well with their racist views. As for the rest of your post, I'm not sure I understand. No argument is a magic bullet. Saying something or someone is racist still requires explaining and demonstrating. | ||
| macroth | | ... | 18-06-2016 @ 09:48 |
no longer the Swiss Deadlift record holder Member 3517, 3368 posts SQ 182.5, BP 122.5, DL 255560.0 kgs @ 90kgs UnEq | John said: Polls are suggestive,depends where they are held who they asked plus I you look at the leave campaigners with exception of ukip I hardly suggest that they are stupid or racist ,furthermore I'm sure that britexiters are aware that if we come away from the EU more power would be placed in the laps of our own government,I'd call that an act of trust.anyway I can clearly tell that poll is propaganda think about it ...people with no intrest in politics so there are no politicians wanting to exit Eu? And I'd argue that they are well educated to did Boris not attend Eaton with Cameron for example? I think you need to think harder about how polls are conducted and what they do or don't mean. | ||
| dannyboy73 | | ... | 18-06-2016 @ 10:09 |
Mask it or Casket !! Member 4600, 8166 posts SQ 240, BP 162.5, DL 255657.5 kgs @ 90.5kgs UnEq | I see the Fear campaign has worked with you and most others... Most humans are frightened of change. I just hope the people have the courage to challenge the satus quo now we actually have a vote that matters for once! unit94 said:I'm actually getting a little bit worried that we might leave. Didn't seem possible afew weeks ago | ||
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