What do belts do?

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Fazc		...	21-08-2007 @ 21:34
Sports an extremely muscular arse. Member 38, 6253 posts	Originally posted by Rob... Suggestion of knee wraps/suits is a different topic altogether because here we're talking about a lifter who wants to improve what is deemed as an unequipped total. We're not talking about an unequipped total. I get the impression of a guy asking about using a belt in his training to 'get stronger' thats all. Originally posted by Rob...I don't see how the belt becomes a crutch. You can do plenty of core work as other exercises We're not talking about merely strengthening the abs here. We're talking about conditioning the entire mid-section for Squats. Try squatting your max weight without a belt, when you normally wear a belt and you'll see exactly what I mean about it being a crutch. If your defence is you could do some ab exercises to close that gap, and be Sqauatting the same. Then why belt up in the first place? Originally posted by Rob...Do chalk or wrist wraps become crutches just because you need them on your heavy lifts? Wrist wraps yeah they do. Same thing, if you normally use wraps just try and lift the same without its obvious you won't be able to (and if you can, why are you using them?). Again, if the defence is with some training you could close the gap and be lifting the same without wraps then i'll say again, why not just train your grip and not use them in the first place?

Alex		...	21-08-2007 @ 21:37
Picca Boo Member 16, 1204 posts SQ 140, BP 130, DL 200 470.0 kgs @ 77kgs UnEq	Originally posted by Rob... Do chalk or wrist wraps become crutches just because you need them on your heavy lifts? Chalk yes, my grip suffers if I don't use it. Not tried a PB without chalk in ages. So I suppose it is a crutch really.

McLaren		...	21-08-2007 @ 22:00
Yet another dieter Member 66, 252 posts SQ 190, BP 145, DL 240 575.0 kgs @ 98kgs UnEq	I bought an inzer lever belt and cannot use the bloody thing. I can see what it does but the f**ker cuts into me something rotten when I squat and it stops me from getting my hips down when I deadlift. It was a complete waste of money for me.

Rob		...	21-08-2007 @ 22:09
Does f*ck all for SugdenBarbell.co.uk Member 1, 7173 posts SQ 182.5, BP 110, DL 205 497.5 kgs @ 107kgs UnEq Administrator	Originally posted by Fazc... We're not talking about merely strengthening the abs here. We're talking about conditioning the entire mid-section for Squats. Try squatting your max weight without a belt, when you normally wear a belt and you'll see exactly what I mean about it being a crutch. If your defence is you could do some ab exercises to close that gap, and be Sqauatting the same. Then why belt up in the first place? It's obvious that a max squat with a belt and then without one is a totally different ball game - I wouldn't even try it. For me a belt is an important part of a max squat and helps to keep your form solid under a heavy weight. My defence isn't that you can do other ab work, that's merely a point. My defence is that you don't have to squat without a belt, so if you want to reserve it for max work then that's fine. I'm looking at is an important aid and not a crutch. I think a lot of this comes down to ones definition of a crutch. For me, belts, wrist wraps and chalk are items which are training aids and certainly not crutches - would you tell a cricketer to stop relying on his top of the range cricket bat and thus not be able to hit it as far? Would you tell a sprinter not to wear the most advanced training shoes to be able to run those few milli-seconds quicker? These things are all part of the equation for me.

Tony		...	21-08-2007 @ 22:10
Is partial to the odd bender. Member 6, 10239 posts SQ 280, BP 192.5, DL 317.5 790.0 kgs @ 102kgs Eq	Wrist wraps never enabled me to bench more they just stopped my wrists from hurting.

tbench		...	21-08-2007 @ 22:12
addicted to bench press, needs help Member 80, 1384 posts SQ 175, BP 160, DL 240 575.0 kgs @ 113kgs UnEq	Post Edited: 21.08.2007 @ 22:15 PM Originally posted by McLaren... I bought an inzer lever belt and cannot use the bloody thing. I can see what it does but the f**ker cuts into me something rotten when I squat and it stops me from getting my hips down when I deadlift. It was a complete waste of money for me. i have the same problem nice belt but cuts in,will list it on ebay or first £20 plus post

Hayden		...	21-08-2007 @ 22:14
memories , like the corners of my mind .... Member 49, 2298 posts SQ 200, BP 132.5, DL 220 552.5 kgs @ 123kgs UnEq	Originally posted by McLaren... I bought an inzer lever belt and cannot use the bloody thing. I can see what it does but the f**ker cuts into me something rotten when I squat and it stops me from getting my hips down when I deadlift. It was a complete waste of money for me. Ye my inzer lever cuts into me and i now have scar tissue around my hips. I just persavered with it tho and i love it.


Fazc		...	21-08-2007 @ 22:55
Sports an extremely muscular arse. Member 38, 6253 posts	Originally posted by Rob......would you tell a cricketer to stop relying on his top of the range cricket bat and thus not be able to hit it as far? Would you tell a sprinter not to wear the most advanced training shoes to be able to run those few milli-seconds quicker? These things are all part of the equation for me. I guess i'm not explaining myself properly because we're just going over the same issues here. Those examples you gave are of competitors using what advantages they can within the rules of their chosen sports. That is not what we're talking about here. My point here is that if you're not competing, you do not need to conform to any rules. As such a belt is not a neccesary tool in your arsenal. You are lifting against yourself only. You can lift without a belt and not lose any advantage to other competitors whatsoever. All you gain by using a belt consistently in your training is a reliance on using that belt for every max attempt thereafter. Instead of having the neccesary conditioning to lift all your maxes without a belt all the time. NB. Its understandable for injuries. If you feel it helps, then more power to you.

Rick		...	21-08-2007 @ 23:05
I am a bench-only guy Member 3, 10036 posts SQ 185, BP 175, DL 235 595.0 kgs @ 140kgs UnEq Administrator	Personally if a belt was cutting scar tissue into me I wouldn't use it... indeed, I don't use them on deadlifts because it's just too uncomfortable at the bottom of the lift. Fazc: inasmuch as just about all of us will be able to squat (or press, or whatever; I'll stuck to squats for the moment) more with a belt than without, sure, they're a crutch. In another thread, you mentioned a guy's strong seated overhead press. Is the bench he's sitting on a crutch? It's for sure he wouldn't be able to press as much standing without a push, so you'd have to say yes. In a similar way, my shoes are definitely a crutch. I'm sure I can't squat as much barefoot, I wouldn't even consider trying. Now, if what you're interested in is being able to squat as much as possible without any equipment, that crutch could still be helpful. You can develop more leg, upper back etc strength while squatting the bigger weight with a belt, just as you build triceps with a board press to help your raw bench or shoulders with a seated press to help your standing press. It's a normal and successful training technique. Obviously if you want to do raw comps then you're going to want the belt because it helps and it's allowed. As to those of us whose objectives aren't dictated by where a fed draws the line, what I suspect most of us who aren't interested in getting fully equipped care about is (a) getting strong, (b) not getting hurt and (c) improving our total in the powerlifts without equipment that we, ourselves, think is too much. Most of us, I think, find a belt compatible with all of those objectives, and I suspect wrist wraps belong in there too. I'm much more interested in not fking up my wrists (which have a significant pre-training history of being fked up, not ideally for a musician) than I am in forcing them to become stronger. f**k machismo on that one. The knee wrap/sleeve discussion has been had elsewhere, but I think exactly the same considerations apply. I've had fairly serious knee trouble since my teenaged basketball days, and squatting has hugely improved my range of motion and contributed to reducing the pain somewhat. Knee sleeves seem to have reduced that pain to almost nothing. I am not interested in training in more pain than necessary. Again, I think there's a real division - if only emotionally - between, on the one hand, belts and wraps (and shoes), and on the other, suits and shirts, and it's one that I think your typical gym member or indeed regular punter who knows nothing about powerlifting feels too. In the end, we all get to draw our own lines.

Fazc		...	21-08-2007 @ 23:25
Sports an extremely muscular arse. Member 38, 6253 posts	Originally posted by Rick... In another thread, you mentioned a guy's strong seated overhead press. Is the bench he's sitting on a crutch? I've never been a fan of the Standing Press for powerlifting. In most cases the limiting factor there is the core and not the pressing muscles. The difference here is that the press is being used to assist the Bench and as such the Pressing muscles should be allowed to be worked to the limit. By doing your shoulder presses on a Bench you are not losing any benefits you would otherwise have by doing them standing, you are in fact benefiting by allowing your shoulders to use more weight and not to be limited to how much your back can stand in that position. And the conditioning for your lower back in a Standing Press position is quite different to a Squatting position. Originally posted by Rick...In a similar way, my shoes are definitely a crutch. I'm sure I can't squat as much barefoot, I wouldn't even consider trying. Think about what you're saying here. A crutch it is, but are you losing any benefit by training in shoes? No, I don't think so. Unless strong arches are a goal. But this is nothing to do with what we're talking about. Originally posted by Rick...You can develop more leg, upper back etc strength while squatting the bigger weight with a belt... Right, we're back on topic. Yes you can develop more power in the other muscles, however you lose development in the core. You know this, if training of the entire body equally is the goal, and you are not restricted by federation rules then it doesn't make sense to advocate the use of belts here. Because as you build the rest of your body, you lose development of the core. Originally posted by Rick...just as you build triceps with a board press to help your raw bench or shoulders with a seated press to help your standing press. It's a normal and successful training technique. This example is a normal and successful training technique which builds up weak areas. However wearing a belt is not, it only makes the gap wider, not building strength. Instead allowing the back to remain (relatively) weak, because it is supported. Regarding injuries again: As i've said if certain equipment helps to control existing injuries then go for it. Originally posted by Rick...Again, I think there's a real division - if only emotionally - between, on the one hand, belts and wraps (and shoes), and on the other, suits and shirts, and it's one that I think your typical gym member or indeed regular punter who knows nothing about powerlifting feels too. Yes. The difference is only emotional. For a non-competitor who has no injuries, lifting with a belt makes about as much sense as lifting with a suit and wraps. It only sounds less dramatic. Faz

Rick		...	22-08-2007 @ 00:04
I am a bench-only guy Member 3, 10036 posts SQ 185, BP 175, DL 235 595.0 kgs @ 140kgs UnEq Administrator	But we're not "training the entire body equally" here. You've said yourself that you're not interested in the standing press (which is fair enough), but only in the powerlifts, so you don't care about that aspect of core strength. Well, most of us are interested in the powerlifts - with belts if they help us. I'm not sufficiently advanced to pronounce on whether you're right about training with a belt some of the time being useful to help your beltless squat - and, probably more importantly, I don't much care, because I don't particularly care about my max beltless squat. However, I will point out that the one piece of evidence I have easy access to - which is to say, my own training - argues that belted training helps your beltless squat. Weights which I used to struggle with before I got the belt in exactly the way that the belt helps - falling forward - are now easy beltless warmups. For a non-competitor who has no injuries, lifting with a belt makes about as much sense as lifting with a suit and wraps. Which is to say, complete sense, if what you care about is what you can lift in the gear you've chosen. Which is what we do, competitive or not. Like I said, we all draw our own lines. I'll leave it there, since I suspect we're talking past each other.

Fazc		...	22-08-2007 @ 08:18
Sports an extremely muscular arse. Member 38, 6253 posts	Originally posted by Rick...I'll leave it there, since I suspect we're talking past each other. Well not really, I think you're over personalising this discussion. It was never meant to be about whether you Rick, or you Rob should wear belts. You have made your decision based on what you prefer and nothing anyone can say, should change that. Rather we're talking about the general effectiveness of wearing a belt if you're not bound by competition rules. Also about the original poster Neil, who has never used a belt and is asking for advice on it. So, what to do? At the moment I'm injury free and I would like to stay that way. Should I wear a belt, or should I just carry on the way I am making sure my back is straight? Now, advising Neil on wearing a belt will not do anything beneficial for him. He's never worn one, and has never been injured. Many of us however are already reliant on the belt for max attempts, we're reliant because our core muscles are relativey weak. They are weak because in training our back is supported by the belt. Advocating that Neil use a belt, will only serve to make him reliant on the belt for max attempts as well. I'm advocating Neil avoid the belt, and instead continue to build a strong back capable of squatting without any assistance. Instead of pampering the back with support, allow it to grow strong with the rest of the body. That will be safer in the end.

little_a		...	22-08-2007 @ 11:12
still a devious weightlifting bastard Member 43, 14374 posts	Lets tell it like it is. Come on face it. We're all over the WWW with 'youtube' and 'lemonfreshlovelies.com' etc, and some of us need a helping hand in the 'suck yer gut in' stakes. Belts pull beer guts in, especially usefull if a PB is to be broadcast to the world and you want to look buff. Dont do it Neil. Dont go the route of the cosmetic lifter. Keep it real.

Boar		...	22-08-2007 @ 11:19
Nothing left in the tank. Member 5, 25583 posts Administrator	belts are important, sure you can train RAW , but when the weights get heavy - over 70% 1RM , its time to buckle up !!

Finch		...	22-08-2007 @ 14:02
Gonna outlive my opposition !! Member 123, 4038 posts SQ 202.5, BP 135.0, DL 232.5 570.0 kgs @ 117kgs UnEq	I use an Inzer lever belt and whilst it took some getting used to now I would not be without it. I wear the belt for all squats and deads over 70% max. If the belt is cutting in you have probably got it in the wrong place, try lifting it up a bit. Alternatively, you could go for the narrow front lever belt, it is the usual width at the back but not much wider than the lever at the front. My only problem is that it weighs about 5 kilos. I think that we should be able to add this figure to our lifts when squatting and dead lifting.

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