Man Made Global Warming !
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| Rick |  | ... | 23-04-2012 @ 22:31 |
 I am a bench-only guy Member 3, 10036 posts SQ 185, BP 175, DL 235595.0 kgs @ 140kgs UnEq Administrator | d_singh said: whether you believe it or not you cant deny its not a proper debate. I'm not denying it's not a proper debate, quite the opposite. I'm pointing out it's not a proper debate. It really does astound me when people who've, at best, read a couple of books on a (possibly) related subject think their opinions are as worthwhile as those of the extremely gifted experts who've spent their life working in the field (and who are, slanted reporting to the contrary, pretty much united, and vehemently so). I've seen several episodes of Casualty, shall I remove your appendix with a breadknife? I've got my own rubber gloves. | ||
| Rick | | ... | 23-04-2012 @ 22:36 |
I am a bench-only guy Member 3, 10036 posts SQ 185, BP 175, DL 235595.0 kgs @ 140kgs UnEq Administrator | Fatpete said: Those are just three that spring to mind, there have surely been others. I reckon that for my most of my life there has always been something deadly hanging over my head like the sword of Damocles. The first of these was, if I recall correctly, an honest case of getting the science wrong. It does happen, occasionally. (And iirc there are those who think that the reason we haven't had the cooling was the as-then-mostly-unrealised effects of atmospheric carbon; I'm not sure we really know. Not my field.) The latter two were both "if we don't do something then". We did something. This is not a falling in either the prediction or the response, quite the opposite. | ||
| IainT | | ... | 23-04-2012 @ 22:51 |
normal people, like me. Member 2325, 550 posts | The global cooling thing in the 70s has way too much made of it. One chap has been running a thing for years trying to get people to send in scientific papers from the 70s predicting, unequivocally, cooling. None. Couple of people mused a few things, and Newsweek ran an article. Now, everyone who remembers it at all remembers it being a big thing, and it wasn't. Part of it was that we were actually having a cooling effect, and cleaning up our polluting ways in general reversed that, and stopped the temporary masking of the CO2 warming. There were however scientific papers published in the 70s discussing CO2 warming. Y2K - if you ask those involved in the work, it seems there really was a problem in principle, it's just that it got fixed before it became a real problem. Anyway, it's the public debate that interests me now. As Rick says, there are a lot of armchair experts that don't exist in other fields. There's something about AGW, and vaccines, DDT, that really pushes some buttons. It might be interesting to track the debate over Colony Collapse Disorder in the US, particularly as evidence seems to be pointing directly towards neonicotinoid pesticides, and the denial machine is swinging in to action to counter it. | ||
| Fatpete | | ... | 24-04-2012 @ 07:31 |
 Hyper obese Pete Member 70, 17932 posts SQ 322.5, BP 205, DL 300827.5 kgs @ 133kgs Eq | Rick said: The latter two were both "if we don't do something then". We did something. This is not a falling in either the prediction or the response, quite the opposite. I would like to believe that, really I would. I paid a great deal of attention to the Aids thing, there was if I recall correctly a two-hour special on both channels about it, and I was faced at the tender age of 25 with either mariage of becoming a virgin again. I remember one instance of where they announced that blood donors should only give blood if they had abstained from sex (with anyone other than a spouse) for five years. Then someone must have realized just how much casual sex there was in the world and how if a single person did give blood they would have the piss taken unmercifully because they were admitting that they hadn't had sex for five years, and it was utterly rescinded. Now I believe you can actually hve casual sex while giving blood, should you so wish. And don't get me started on the wording of the ads at the time. By that I mean do, but face to face as it would take too long to type. Now I do realize that I may of being hearing what they said as opposed to what they meant. but they did chop and change a lot at the time. As to Y2K, Greece and / or Italy did nothing. Vowing to fix whatever was broke after 01/01/2000 and guess what - they didn't have to fix a thing. Whenever something that the majority don't understand crops up, the pudding gets massively over-egged so those that do understand can make big bucks out of it. Or at least that is the was it seems to me. But I freely admit that I make speak as a child | ||
| macroth | | ... | 24-04-2012 @ 08:28 |
 no longer the Swiss Deadlift record holder Member 3517, 3368 posts SQ 182.5, BP 122.5, DL 255560.0 kgs @ 90kgs UnEq | http://www.greekembassy.org/embassy/content/en/Article.aspx?of... Looks like Greece actually did whatever had to be done before Jan 1, 2000. Some people in this thread seem to be citing rumors on the street, mass media frenzy, scientific debate/consensus and Government policy as if they were interchangeable and equally reliable sources of information. | ||
| macroth | | ... | 24-04-2012 @ 08:30 |
no longer the Swiss Deadlift record holder Member 3517, 3368 posts SQ 182.5, BP 122.5, DL 255560.0 kgs @ 90kgs UnEq | Fatpete said: Whenever something that the majority don't understand crops up, the pudding gets massively over-egged so those that do understand can make big bucks out of it. Or at least that is the was it seems to me. I think you're right. In the case of climate change, however, I would be looking at the major oil companies and their cronies as those trying to create confusion and take advantage to make big bucks. | ||
| Steve | | ... | 24-04-2012 @ 09:39 |
nothing to hide, please follow my life on webcam Member 255, 3732 posts | d_singh said:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvufOvneJMk whether you believe it or not you cant deny its not a proper debate. people who dont agree with the over hyped climate change theory are being ignored by mass media No temperature rise, no chane in ice levels and no increase in hurricanes etc. and yet the woman in the clip still wants to unquestioningly accept what Greenpeace has to say. Are people really interested in the truth? | ||
| Dan | | ... | 24-04-2012 @ 11:59 |
 Dan is old fashioned. Member 27, 2028 posts SQ 240, BP 170, DL 255665.0 kgs @ 102kgs UnEq | Steve said:It's interesting the term global warming seems to have fallen out of favour somewhat with it now being called climate chane. I guess they realised that many British people weren't all that concerned about the idea of warmer weather and found it difficult to accept we might have water shortages (we are after all an Island surrounded by water - there's no reason we should ever have shortages of water we just need to get it to the right place) Of course they are now bailing out, realising people are sceptical, and hiding behind "British Weather is such that as Global Warming continues, Britain will actually get colder". How convenient. | ||
| Dan | | ... | 24-04-2012 @ 12:14 |
Dan is old fashioned. Member 27, 2028 posts SQ 240, BP 170, DL 255665.0 kgs @ 102kgs UnEq | Post Edited: 24.04.2012 @ 12:17 PM by Dan I think the biggest problem with the "debate" is that there are just as many experts saying global warming is a croc as there are supporting it.If it was scientific fact then surely there would be very few, if any, scientists arguing against it. And if it was irrefutable FACT, then surely the governments would be taking serious measures, not just increasing taxation but actually BANNING people from driving and BANNING companies from producing certain emissions etc, not just charging them more to do it ! As a species, we seem to like scaremongering, as Pete mentioned, Aids, Bird Flu even "the worst winter for 50 years", none of which ever happens. All I know for sure is that it's almost May and it's still bloody freezing. I see no evidence of global warming at my house... | ||
| IainT | | ... | 24-04-2012 @ 13:38 |
normal people, like me. Member 2325, 550 posts | Post Edited: 24.04.2012 @ 13:39 PM by IainT Dan said:I think the biggest problem with the "debate" is that there are just as many experts saying global warming is a croc as there are supporting it. If it was scientific fact then surely there would be very few, if any, scientists arguing against it. I'm sorry, but there really aren't. Hang around the debate for a couple of years, you'll be able to name all the sceptics with relevant qualifications. You'll also be able to name a dozen or so more who are prominent in the debate who don't have a track record of publishing, or are cranks like Lord Monckton. The studies of the published literature demonstrate little to no publishing of sceptical material. So, either the sceptics aren't very numerous and aren't publishing, or there's a conspiracy to keep them out. The more likely of those two scenarios is the one that doesn't include thousands of scientists all involved in a conspiracy. The only high profile attempts to demonstrate large numbers of "scientists" opposing the consensus was the wonderfully deceptive and useless Oregon Petition. Secondly, the rewards for being the public maverick who disproved the paradigm are significantly higher than anonymity and slaving away putting little bricks in the wall of what we know. There will always be someone who acts the contrarian. | ||
| Tannhauser | | ... | 24-04-2012 @ 17:44 |
 fighting woo with woo Member 206, 1491 posts SQ 227.5, BP 165, DL 260652.5 kgs @ 100kgs UnEq | Dan said:I think the biggest problem with the "debate" is that there are just as many experts saying global warming is a croc as there are supporting it. If it was scientific fact then surely there would be very few, if any, scientists arguing against it. And if it was irrefutable FACT, then surely the governments would be taking serious measures, not just increasing taxation but actually BANNING people from driving and BANNING companies from producing certain emissions etc, not just charging them more to do it ! As a species, we seem to like scaremongering, as Pete mentioned, Aids, Bird Flu even "the worst winter for 50 years", none of which ever happens. All I know for sure is that it's almost May and it's still bloody freezing. I see no evidence of global warming at my house... Dan, Iain's post on this is spot on. It really is the case that only a small handful of guys with any degree os academic firepower dispute the findings. The problem, as Iain has said on several posts, is that they are over-reported. Ultimately, one of the big determinants of what people believe is whether they are motivated to believe it. That's why global warming is a hard sell. As a former Supra owner (like yourself), with a massively polluting car, I'd rather have believed that humans have little impact on climate change. As for government policy - the needs to control climate change have to be balanced against other demands. First and foremost is electability. Measures that are too draconian are automatically self-cancelling because any government that proposes them won't be in power long enough to enact them.  | ||
| Harry | | ... | 24-04-2012 @ 18:09 |
I have sex with women Member 2122, 310 posts SQ 180, BP 135, DL 220535.0 kgs @ 98kgs UnEq | Billwest said: Errr... Yess! I say this to everyone I meet who thinks man made global warming is real. Look up and around, see anything interesting in the sky? Not a plane, not clouds nor is it Superman. The Sun. Biggest spacial body in our solar system and heats our planet so life can flourish. Are you saying Mankind has any hope of matching such a thing? The heat waves that occured a month ago were a result of a small solar flare millions of miles away, dont be as ignorant as many sheep seem to be these days. | ||
| IainKendrick | | ... | 24-04-2012 @ 18:12 |
 some nice relaxing jazz. Member 77, 12599 posts SQ 265, BP 165, DL 280710.0 kgs @ 93kgs UnEq | Nailed it in post no. 4 Mind you more informed and sensible opinion than one could expect on sugden  | ||
| Steve | | ... | 24-04-2012 @ 18:55 |
nothing to hide, please follow my life on webcam Member 255, 3732 posts | Post Edited: 24.04.2012 @ 18:59 PM by Steve IainT said: I'm sorry, but there really aren't. Hang around the debate for a couple of years, you'll be able to name all the sceptics with relevant qualifications. You'll also be able to name a dozen or so more who are prominent in the debate who don't have a track record of publishing, or are cranks like Lord Monckton. Are Monckton's "facts" about no increases in temperature, no change in the ice caps and no increase in hurricanes etc all lies or somehow a distortion of the facts? People obviously have a fairly low view on him when you try to look for information, and he clearly seems to have got a lot of things wrong, but surely straight facts about temperature rise over the past ten years and number of hurricanes etc over the same sort of period must be verifiable facts. | ||
| MarkClegg | | ... | 24-04-2012 @ 20:12 |
 knock knock !! who's there ?? OLD SCHOOL SUGDEN Member 212, 11439 posts SQ 325, BP 212.5, DL 370907.5 kgs @ 100kgs UnEq | Post Edited: 24.04.2012 @ 20:13 PM by MarkClegg Now this is very interesting - James Lovelock is unsure - Was it not his f**king idea ? http://climatedepot.com/a/15621/Alert-Gaia-scientist-James-Lov... | ||