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The overtraining bible: a complete guide

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Rick		...	01-05-2007 @ 20:48
I am a bench-only guy Member 3, 10068 posts SQ 185, BP 175, DL 235 595.0 kgs @ 140kgs UnEq Administrator	Talking like me is only right and proper; who can blame you? It'd be fun, were you benching in a shirt, to see you go the full Kara route - max-legal grip and a 2" ROM . Obviously you don't want to try that raw with anything much heavier than a broomstick... Get some rest, girl. You've been beating the s**t out of yourself for months now. A week of chilling would do you the world of good imo.

littlegirlbunny		...	01-05-2007 @ 22:03
MIA Member 7, 621 posts SQ 80, BP 45, DL 125 250.0 kgs @ 55kgs UnEq	Originally posted by tokar... I'm sure I remember someone else telling you that you should bring your bench grip out, and for very similar reasons. Still, if you want to only listen to the advice of 285kg benchers.... LOL - well indeed this is true, and I did try several times, but let it slip back in. This is the first time I have actually tried proactively using superwide grip as an assistance though...hopefully it will translate this time! Originally posted by Rick... Talking like me is only right and proper; who can blame you? It'd be fun, were you benching in a shirt, to see you go the full Kara route - max-legal grip and a 2" ROM . Obviously you don't want to try that raw with anything much heavier than a broomstick... Get some rest, girl. You've been beating the s**t out of yourself for months now. A week of chilling would do you the world of good imo. It's funny you should mention shirted benching.....what with my dodgy shoulder and even dodgier knee i'm thinking equipped may not be an option soon, it may be the only way to go Rest, bleh - resting is for when i'm sick/injured/dead. One of which is sure to come along soon enough

littlegirlbunny		...	01-05-2007 @ 22:18
MIA Member 7, 621 posts SQ 80, BP 45, DL 125 250.0 kgs @ 55kgs UnEq	Ok, I have a plan....It will be based on a four days which will be spread out over the course of 7 or 8 days. It will be flexible to fit in round work and training times which are going to change alot over the next few months. It will also have to deal with my change to morning training. I know this is going to have a big effect on my lifting, but I am going to trial it for the next few weeks to see if I adapt. Additionally, I will also be doing Muay Thai up to 5 days a week, possibly some judo and a bit of CV. Not much rest time planned, but work always forces rest days when i'm on site, and i'll just take other days when I need them. Day 1 Bench - starting with 2 heavy paused reps followed by 5x5, then 5x5 then 5x2 Wide grip pulls (this is the only backwork i'm doing on day 1, as it is likely to be the next day that I deadlift) Superwide bench assistance - 25 kg for 10's and upping very slowly using microplates Rotar Cuffs Day 2 Deadlifts - following olly's program again, but again dropping the doubles at the later weights if necessary Rack pulls/plate pulls to superheavy singles Speed squats with bands and 40 kg(actually ordered some a while back, but kinda assumed they came in pairs. Doh! Better order the other ones now!!) Abs Hyperextensions Day 3 Boards or Bench lockouts hitting my sticking point 3" above my chest Lat work on machines (Lots of volume) CGBP keeping elbows tight as possible Day 4 Heavy squats starting where I left off before the comp - 3 heavy singles followed by 3x3 Push press starting with 5x5 at 30 kg Shrugs Abs Rotar cuffs Alot of volume there, as you can see. If it gets too much, i'll just reduce the assistance and maybe cycle it fortnightly. But it should be ok, depending on the amount of Muay Thai and Judo I get in. Any input would obviously be greatly appreciated.

Fruitbat		...	01-05-2007 @ 22:32
slightly smaller bat Member 15, 304 posts SQ 135, BP 70, DL 147.5 352.5 kgs @ 63kgs Eq	have you tried speed squats? looks like a good workout plan - I will be interested to see how it goes. How come you will be training in the mornings now?

littlegirlbunny		...	02-05-2007 @ 10:57
MIA Member 7, 621 posts SQ 80, BP 45, DL 125 250.0 kgs @ 55kgs UnEq	Originally posted by Fruitbat... have you tried speed squats? looks like a good workout plan - I will be interested to see how it goes. How come you will be training in the mornings now? Yeah, I have done them before. I find them useful to keep me in the squatting groove, but I have never really paid enough attention to the 'speed' bit. Really going to focus on that now! Training has changed to the mornings because Mr Brown has changed his training around completely. I'm not sure whether I am going to stick to it, but i'm going to give it a couple of weeks to see. I feel rushed in the morning, because (contrary to popular opinion) I do actually have to work. Wednesday Morning - Oh my, i'm tired! Was going to start Olly's plan this week, but decided to eaaaasssse back in gently and add an even lighter week to the start - 80% for 5 singles. I kept the assistance work superlight today too. Roll on thursday rest day! 10 mins CV Deadlifts 50 kg: 5 70 kg: 3 90 kg: 2 104 kg: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 Rack pulls 90 kg: 2 100 kg: 3 (very fast) 110 kg: 1 Speed squats (no bands yet, should be here by this session next week!) 20 kg: 2, 2, 2 40 kg: 4 doubles - last was by far the quickest. Certainly true that the faster it goes down (still controlled though ), the faster it comes up. Back hyperextensions and Abs I am soooo sore from yesterdays wide grip assistance - I haven't had DOMS like it for ages - all in my front delts and upper pecs. They must be targeting a real weak point!

Cuddles		...	02-05-2007 @ 11:41
Eat.Cycle.Sleep.Win Member 2, 12511 posts SQ 190, BP 150, DL 280 620.0 kgs @ 99kgs UnEq	Post Edited: 02.05.2007 @ 11:42 AM Day 2 Deadlifts - following olly's program again, but again dropping the doubles at the later weights if necessary Rack pulls/plate pulls to superheavy singles Id drop the weights rather than drop the doubles. Otherwise you might as well do a different programme IMO. Like I keep saying to people, the hard work on this routine is the assistance, not the deadlifts. The first two times I went through this I didnt take a break inbetween and still didnt miss a single rep. If you're not able to go through it once without missing reps then id have a major rethink.... Good luck with the training Joe!

littlegirlbunny		...	02-05-2007 @ 13:07
MIA Member 7, 621 posts SQ 80, BP 45, DL 125 250.0 kgs @ 55kgs UnEq	Originally posted by Olly... Day 2 Deadlifts - following olly's program again, but again dropping the doubles at the later weights if necessary Rack pulls/plate pulls to superheavy singles Id drop the weights rather than drop the doubles. Otherwise you might as well do a different programme IMO. Like I keep saying to people, the hard work on this routine is the assistance, not the deadlifts. The first two times I went through this I didnt take a break inbetween and still didnt miss a single rep. If you're not able to go through it once without missing reps then id have a major rethink.... Good luck with the training Joe! Hmm, well, I guess there are two reasons why I was planning to follow this routine again. Firstly, despite the fact I dropped the 2 doubles for 4 singles, it still worked well and I easily nailed the projected 125 kg. Secondly, it forces me to have lighter speed weeks. These are good for me, because as you know i'm not too disciplined with taking light sessions. I still do heavy-ass assistance work (well, except today ) and overall I still think the program works, even with this variation. Plus, the reason I hate pulling doubles is, well, because I hate pulling them! At least I get some practice with doubles at the earlier part of the program. I'm hoping this may translate this time to see me getting all the doubles. Although that would see me doubling 123.5 kg. LOL I guess the other option is to use my current max, rather than projected one, and try and get all the way through this time, but that just doesn't appeal - i have a feeling I would still bottle the later doubles. I think I would rather go back to my old program of a shorter cycle of 5 singles upping 5 kg each week than do that On the other hand, guess I should probably just listen to the deadlifting expert and drop the weight

Fruitbat		...	02-05-2007 @ 19:04
slightly smaller bat Member 15, 304 posts SQ 135, BP 70, DL 147.5 352.5 kgs @ 63kgs Eq	the 125k DL at the comp looked really easy for you so I would say it would be worth projecting a slightly higher DL 1RM????

Rob		...	02-05-2007 @ 22:03
Does f*ck all for SugdenBarbell.co.uk Member 1, 7174 posts SQ 182.5, BP 110, DL 205 497.5 kgs @ 107kgs UnEq Administrator	I don't think an ambitious projected max is a good idea on Olly's routine, it's tough enough as it is. As I found to my peril after pulling what I thought was an easy 200 and then basing it off 210.

littlegirlbunny		...	02-05-2007 @ 22:57
MIA Member 7, 621 posts SQ 80, BP 45, DL 125 250.0 kgs @ 55kgs UnEq	Originally posted by Rob... I don't think an ambitious projected max is a good idea on Olly's routine, it's tough enough as it is. As I found to my peril after pulling what I thought was an easy 200 and then basing it off 210. Yeah, I have to agree with you Rob - even just a little above the max makes it a killer routine. However, I set the last one with a projected max of 125 and it seemed to work well despite not following the later stages of the program to the letter. This time I have worked it from 130 kg and am going to risk it and see how it goes. What's the worst that happens? I abandon it halfway and change to a different routine. But I have faith it will be sucessful again, even with a little modification. I would definately say adding 5 kg is about the max limit (on my sized deads) that the program is designed for. Also, if I had found the 125 kg hard I probably would have set for 127.5 kg.

Rick		...	02-05-2007 @ 23:35
I am a bench-only guy Member 3, 10068 posts SQ 185, BP 175, DL 235 595.0 kgs @ 140kgs UnEq Administrator	I honestly think that with another building-up cycle to get used to them you'll shake your fear of doubles and nail them. You've always had the strength, but you've talked yourself out of second reps.

Cuddles		...	03-05-2007 @ 10:49
Eat.Cycle.Sleep.Win Member 2, 12511 posts SQ 190, BP 150, DL 280 620.0 kgs @ 99kgs UnEq	Rob makes a very good point. If its any help, the most id add to my max on that routine would likely be 5kg, which at the moment would pan out to only 1.9% more. That doesnt mean thats what I want at the end of the routine, it means it what I base the workouts off. (The routine is similar to the Coan/Philipi one where if you are too ambitious it'll cripple you!) At the end of the routine Id max until I knew I couldnt add weight to the bar, or I miss. Often the PB achieved on a routine can be a lot different to the 'projected max'. Plus, if I just kept doing that routine adding 5kg at a time id be pulling 310kg in 2 years, sometimes slow and steady wins the race I think 5kg isnt too big a jump for you at the moment Joe but as you get better be careful with this. The gains will start to slow at some point.

Rick		...	03-05-2007 @ 17:36
I am a bench-only guy Member 3, 10068 posts SQ 185, BP 175, DL 235 595.0 kgs @ 140kgs UnEq Administrator	I'd second that - I based my last run off 200 and pulled 212.5 despite forgetting to get my head up.

tokar		...	03-05-2007 @ 22:42
Невыносимо Высокомерный (RIP) Member 11, 965 posts SQ 190, BP 140, DL 255 585.0 kgs @ 95kgs UnEq	Originally posted by Olly... Rob makes a very good point. If its any help, the most id add to my max on that routine would likely be 5kg, which at the moment would pan out to only 1.9% more. That doesnt mean thats what I want at the end of the routine, it means it what I base the workouts off. (The routine is similar to the Coan/Philipi one where if you are too ambitious it'll cripple you!) At the end of the routine Id max until I knew I couldnt add weight to the bar, or I miss. Often the PB achieved on a routine can be a lot different to the 'projected max'. I completely agree with this - but the thought springs to mind, "In that case, why not adjust the percentages to base them off current 1RM?" Then you don't have any of this projected max/hoped for max/what you go for in the max workout confusion.

Cuddles		...	04-05-2007 @ 09:59
Eat.Cycle.Sleep.Win Member 2, 12511 posts SQ 190, BP 150, DL 280 620.0 kgs @ 99kgs UnEq	Because I need the stimulation of working from a new max. Remember when I wrote this routine I was writing it for no one but myself. So I designed it EXACTLY how I wanted it; to suit me both mentally and physically. Plus I managed to go through it twice and had no problems, setting big PBs both times. For me at least, thats some evidence that it did what it was designed to do. Id also add that even when I was concentrating on adding reps a month or two ago, I think that if I worked from a projected max of 265kg I still wouldnt miss a rep. The doubles with 250kg would be hard but definitely doable. Especially after 8 weeks of training doubles.

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