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The overtraining bible: a complete guide

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Rick		...	15-05-2007 @ 20:30
I am a bench-only guy Member 3, 10042 posts SQ 185, BP 175, DL 235 595.0 kgs @ 140kgs UnEq Administrator	Well, I squat easily 150-160kg and Jim squats 390, so whose advice should you take? Yeah, that's right, his! I ought to be able to figure out all the physics of squatting, but frankly it confuses me. I'd love it all explained.

littlegirlbunny		...	16-05-2007 @ 09:49
MIA Member 7, 621 posts SQ 80, BP 45, DL 125 250.0 kgs @ 55kgs UnEq	Wednesday Morning - Bench 10 mins CV 20 kg: 10 30 kg: 5 35 kg: 2 41 kg: 5, 5, 4.......decided to cut the session short because I wasn't getting anything out of it. So tired and sore. I hate mornings, and I am going to have to work something else out, because it is going to totally f**k my progress if I have to keep lifting early.

Hayden		...	16-05-2007 @ 12:21
memories , like the corners of my mind .... Member 49, 2298 posts SQ 200, BP 132.5, DL 220 552.5 kgs @ 123kgs UnEq	Thats too bad jo. I cant train during mornings also, i used to wake up early on a saturday before work but i just couldn't hack it. That bench is coming along very nicely tho, maybe the big 50 in the next 2 months??

littlegirlbunny		...	16-05-2007 @ 18:54
MIA Member 7, 621 posts SQ 80, BP 45, DL 125 250.0 kgs @ 55kgs UnEq	Originally posted by HVince... Thats too bad jo. I cant train during mornings also, i used to wake up early on a saturday before work but i just couldn't hack it. That bench is coming along very nicely tho, maybe the big 50 in the next 2 months?? I would say prolly the 47.5 kg in 2 months - i'm not expecting 50 until sometime around christmas tbh. Rep strength never translates over for me!

littlegirlbunny		...	18-05-2007 @ 11:42
MIA Member 7, 621 posts SQ 80, BP 45, DL 125 250.0 kgs @ 55kgs UnEq	Wednesday Evening - G-Camp at trafford Good class, worked hard tonight. To many press-ups though, my tendons were really really painful. Was struggling with hooks because they hurt my elbows too. Thursday Woke up after a bad night's sleep - my tendon pain kept waking me up it had got that bad. Thursday lunchtime - 20 min run with Sophie of fee. Haven't been running for a while - 20 mins felt alot longer than it used too LOL. But felt good after, and so much better than doing CV in the gym Thursday evening. 10 mins CV warm-up Bench 42.5 kg: 5, 5, 5, 4, 3 - I asked a random guy to spot me on the last set. That was a mistake, he assisted me on the first rep. For f**ks sake, who let these idiots in the gym? It wasn't like I was struggling. As you can imagine having to pause, explain to him not to assist me unless I asked or was obviously going to drop it on my face threw me off a bit. I reckon I could have got 4 on that last set. Still, that was a 3 extra rep PB for 42.5 kg and i'm more than a bit pleased with that , it was a real surprise! I knew I wouldn't get the 5x5 tonight, tendons were agony, and had only benched a couple of days before. But, tbh, I just wanted to get to the end of the 5x5 bit as i'm bored as hell with 5x5 training right now. Plus I really really need some downtime off upper body stuff completely to give these tendons a chance to rest, but I would be frustrated to have taken time off earlier than planned. Now i'll be happy to stay away from all upper body work for a week, it will do me good and then i'll come back and start triples. After I next max out (in about 5 weeks I reckon), i'll be starting Tokars program on bench. Tried chins, wide grip and military pressing after - they were all too painful. My right shoulder, left elbow, actually every tendon and joint from my wrist to my neck on both sides are inflammed and painful. Definately time for a break. 20 mins cycling for knee rehab I still have the most wonderful DOMS in my quads from the lunges/leg extensions!

Neil		...	18-05-2007 @ 12:17
For Kettle, For Country! Member 81, 1706 posts SQ 182.5, BP 120, DL 227.5 530.0 kgs @ 90kgs UnEq	Just been reading over your journal. Like the video, especially that 125DL. Lovely. You never did say what your 10km running time was/is?

Neil		...	18-05-2007 @ 12:22
For Kettle, For Country! Member 81, 1706 posts SQ 182.5, BP 120, DL 227.5 530.0 kgs @ 90kgs UnEq	Originally posted by Neil... You never did say what your 10km running time was/is? Ummm you just did!

littlegirlbunny		...	18-05-2007 @ 12:24
MIA Member 7, 621 posts SQ 80, BP 45, DL 125 250.0 kgs @ 55kgs UnEq	Originally posted by Neil... Originally posted by Neil... You never did say what your 10km running time was/is? Ummm you just did! LOL I am a master at great timing

littlegirlbunny		...	20-05-2007 @ 17:45
MIA Member 7, 621 posts SQ 80, BP 45, DL 125 250.0 kgs @ 55kgs UnEq	Friday - Rest Day Saturday - G-Camp at Chorlton Shorter (1 hour class) today. Was ok, but struggling alot with all my left body work and pivoting on my right leg. Got really frustrated by the end and booked a private lesson next week to work on my left kicks. Right kicks and punches were good though. Sunday - Deadlift day 10 mins CV warm-up Deadlifts 50 kg: 10 70 kg: 3 90 kg: 2 100 kg: 1 110 kg: 5 singles - felt really out of the deadlifting groove today, and couldn't place why Rack pulls below knee These were hard - I usually pull from much higher, but think I may have to work on these alot more. Much harder than pulling from the floor. 60 kg: 2, 2 80 kg: 2, 2, 2 90 kg: 2 100 kg: 1 110 kg: F Speed squats 20 kg and 30 kg warm-ups 50 kg: 4 doubles 20 mins cycling 10 mins hard cross-training Feeling very very unmotivated with training right now. Don't know what it is, haven't really enjoyed it all that much since the comp.

brynevans		...	21-05-2007 @ 12:02
Scotbasher - forever Member 59, 2115 posts	Jo, Do you think your body is trying to tell you something? You have completed a power cycle and then competed which is a lot of work and it takes a lot out of you. I would say most powerlifters then have a period of what I would call "active rest" where upon you go into the gym 2-3 days after the comp and go through the motions just to loosen up. This would involve doing light full range of motion lifts and light assistance exercises and some stretching. This is a time for recovery. In the following weeks (unless there is another contest immediately on the horizon) commence "off season" type training which involves good form/technique and light to moderate weights so maybe 5-6 reps and about 50% 1rm poundage and gradually edge it up over the weeks. You can work on some of the assistance exercises on a cycling basis too. You seem to have a number of injuries? How well are you managing these? I see you have had psysiotherapy too, how useful was this and what was their advice to you? When you are injured you are have to learn when to stop and when to train, there's no point continuing a workout just because you wrote down I must do 3 sets on X weight then making an injury much worse as a result of doing it. I would urge you to take some rest, you were almost immediately back in the gym using big poundages which has been detrimental to you. With the other training you do you never get any good recovery periods. Get your injuries sorted out, Listen to your physio, if they are familiar to working with strength trainers they will understand the mechanics of the lifts and advise you accordingly on what to avoid doing. Keep up with ice/heat therapy stretching that they may tell you to do. Doing less is not cheating it is about preserving your long term goals, you have a lot of potential and I hate to see you doing too much and getting hurt.

littlegirlbunny		...	21-05-2007 @ 19:01
MIA Member 7, 621 posts SQ 80, BP 45, DL 125 250.0 kgs @ 55kgs UnEq	Post Edited: 21.05.2007 @ 19:04 PM Originally posted by brynevans... Jo, Do you think your body is trying to tell you something? You have completed a power cycle and then competed which is a lot of work and it takes a lot out of you. I would say most powerlifters then have a period of what I would call "active rest" where upon you go into the gym 2-3 days after the comp and go through the motions just to loosen up. This would involve doing light full range of motion lifts and light assistance exercises and some stretching. This is a time for recovery. In the following weeks (unless there is another contest immediately on the horizon) commence "off season" type training which involves good form/technique and light to moderate weights so maybe 5-6 reps and about 50% 1rm poundage and gradually edge it up over the weeks. You can work on some of the assistance exercises on a cycling basis too. Hey Bryn! Yeah, my body is always trying to tell me something LOL (and I usually ignore it, or i'd never train at all ) Well, I did actually start back pretty light, or at least I thought so, on all exercises after the comp. But I guess i'm cycling back up too quick, and it wasn't light enough at the start? Originally posted by brynevans... You seem to have a number of injuries? How well are you managing these? This is likely to turn into an essay - as anyone who knows me well will tell you - never, ever, ask littlegirlbunny about her injuries LOL Yeah, a number of injuries, although they are all interrelated. Always the same things - right leg, tendonitis in both arms - varying in location and pain depending on what i have been training/driving. I think they all stem from the same thing, but I need to get it properly diagnosed. I manage them by either working round them, ignoring the pain or resting. I do rehab/prehab for my knee in the form of cycling and have just started doing specific quad work again. I do rehab for the shoulders using some rotar cuff exercises that a physio gave me a while back when I tore my right shoulder tendon. I never ice or rest enough, thats for sure. I don't take painkillers unless I absolutely have to (very very rarely) because then i'll just work straight through it and won't realise how bad it is. I have got some negative heel shoes to try and sort my posture. I personally think everything stems from my overly arched back (which i have self diagnosed as lordosis - but as I am no expert that may be way off the mark - i have the classic symptoms though - can sit for hours, but standing still for 10 mins leaves my knees and lower back in agony). The arched back was suggested by the very first physio I saw (and NHS one must be 8 or 10 years ago now) as the cause for all my knee problems. She commented how she was very surprised I didn't suffer alot of back pain, because of arch being quite defined and the fact my right hip rolls in significantly compared to my left. This also ties in with the fact that (despite my atrocious deadlift form) I rarely if ever get back problem from deadlifting, but regularly get problems after squatting, despite a decent back position. She also said that my hamstrings were totally dominant over my quads (when running I rarely use my quads) and gave me a whole load of exercises to do to strengthen my quads. None of which worked as well as getting to the gym and lifting weights (which was really how the weightlifting started - as rehab so I could run more back then!). The knee/back problems are genetic - my dad had to walk with a stick and my brother and sister have both had surgery on their knees. So i'm grateful mine are holding out at the moment. I personally think that my quads have just got weaker and weaker in comparison to my hams over the last year, because the focus if always on hamstring/glute training. Most people I have spoken to seem to think quad isolation is unnecessary, but i am going to go against that for a bit and see if it helps correct the imbalance. Originally posted by brynevans... I see you have had psysiotherapy too, how useful was this and what was their advice to you? Well......the very first physio I saw I think gave me the best advice out of all of them (as discussed) - she was the only one who actually had a holistic approach. I had some specific injury physio a couple of years ago (on the shoulder and later sciatica and shin splints) which was also very useful. But the last physio I saw wasn't so good. He said there was no problem with my knee and was more amused about the fact that a small girl could claim to be a powerlifter. TBH he wasn't really intrested - just stuck me under the ultrasound and left it at that. So i'm now a bit apprehensive about paying someone else lots of cash to be let down, and am trying to find a decent physio in manchester. Originally posted by brynevans...When you are injured you are have to learn when to stop and when to train, there's no point continuing a workout just because you wrote down I must do 3 sets on X weight then making an injury much worse as a result of doing it. I totally agree with you, although, I have also found that I only really started making progress when I stopped being a wimp and just worked round the injuries rather than resting. I was always injured as a kid, so it's nothing new, and nothing specific to training - I had knee problems even as a child. Guess i'm built a bit wrong lol On the other hand I guess the balance has probably gone too far the other way and I do need to find more time to rest. Originally posted by brynevans...I would urge you to take some rest, you were almost immediately back in the gym using big poundages which has been detrimental to you. With the other training you do you never get any good recovery periods. Get your injuries sorted out, Listen to your physio, if they are familiar to working with strength trainers they will understand the mechanics of the lifts and advise you accordingly on what to avoid doing. Keep up with ice/heat therapy stretching that they may tell you to do. Doing less is not cheating it is about preserving your long term goals, you have a lot of potential and I hate to see you doing too much and getting hurt. The Muay Thai is a big problem in terms of recovery, thats for sure. Its brutal every session on my arms and knee. But I love training, so I guess in some ways, i'll never fulfill my potential, because I will always do too much. I could give up the Muay Thai, x-train at the gym for CV fitness, and just lift weights. And i'm sure my total would benefit. But there is no way I want to do that - I love both sports equally and thus will always have to compromise. If I thought I could be right at the top of the game in either - I would focus on that sport, but that isn't going to happen, so i'd rather just enjoy training for both I have been taking more rest days since the comp - before it was only one day in 5, or sometimes 7. But now it seems to be about 1 in 3 or 4. So that may help too. Sorry - did warn you it may turn into an essay - but you did ask

tokar		...	21-05-2007 @ 20:35
Невыносимо Высокомерный (RIP) Member 11, 965 posts SQ 190, BP 140, DL 255 585.0 kgs @ 95kgs UnEq	I read it all! I'm with you on the Muay Thai / Powerlifting - a while ago when I was still trying to do weightlifting and powerlifting I was very conscious that both would suffer if I didn't concentrate on one to the exclusion of the other, but at the time I loved weightlifting too much to drop it. Then I decided that it wasn't really going anywhere because I didn't have any coaching so I might as well devote myself to PL. So I can understand both ways - the important thing is that you recognise the compromises, as you do, and embrace them. On the physio front - I haven't actually been to the physio at Total Fitness but I have been hugely impressed with the massage therapist. And despite being based at a gym that does also cater for the clueless fitness crowd, the whole practice is very much geared towards sportsmen (they treat a lot of rugby players and footballers) so I imagine they would have a much better understanding of your situation than most. (And I would certainly hope they wouldn't be amused by the idea of a small female powerlifter - which is just plain f**king disgraceful in my opinion.) I think it's pretty pricey though.

Rick		...	21-05-2007 @ 20:38
I am a bench-only guy Member 3, 10042 posts SQ 185, BP 175, DL 235 595.0 kgs @ 140kgs UnEq Administrator	I think a lot of us at the Sugden have a tendency to keep beating ourselves up when we should be healing. I'm probably a bit too much the other way, I admit. Jo - if you already had an imbalance with weaker quads, then it will definitely have got worse! You probably need to be doing a ton of quad work (front squats, oly squats especially) just for health, let alone for performance improvement in both your sports. But I think Bryn's right - you've been beating on yourself non-stop for a long, long time now.

tokar		...	21-05-2007 @ 20:49
Невыносимо Высокомерный (RIP) Member 11, 965 posts SQ 190, BP 140, DL 255 585.0 kgs @ 95kgs UnEq	Yeah, doing squats only with that mega wide stance certainly isn't going to build any quad power. But then you do front squats too, don't you?

littlegirlbunny		...	21-05-2007 @ 22:37
MIA Member 7, 621 posts SQ 80, BP 45, DL 125 250.0 kgs @ 55kgs UnEq	Originally posted by tokar... I read it all! I'm with you on the Muay Thai / Powerlifting - a while ago when I was still trying to do weightlifting and powerlifting I was very conscious that both would suffer if I didn't concentrate on one to the exclusion of the other, but at the time I loved weightlifting too much to drop it. Then I decided that it wasn't really going anywhere because I didn't have any coaching so I might as well devote myself to PL. So I can understand both ways - the important thing is that you recognise the compromises, as you do, and embrace them. Yeah, it's frustrating for sure. I guess, at the moment, i'm still making progress in both (albeit slow). If one or the other of them stalled completely, I would probably have a rethink, and I guess powerlifting would be my first choice, but it would be a close call. Originally posted by tokar...On the physio front - I haven't actually been to the physio at Total Fitness but I have been hugely impressed with the massage therapist. And despite being based at a gym that does also cater for the clueless fitness crowd, the whole practice is very much geared towards sportsmen (they treat a lot of rugby players and footballers) so I imagine they would have a much better understanding of your situation than most. (And I would certainly hope they wouldn't be amused by the idea of a small female powerlifter - which is just plain f**king disgraceful in my opinion.) I think it's pretty pricey though. I don't mind paying for good service, especially on recommendation. I remember you mentioning TF before, so I may well give it a go. The other places I have been thinking about trying are the physio at the Wye Club, Joni's Osteopath or the Manchester back clinic. Yeah, I do front squats, although haven't for a few weeks. But they are usually with wide stance! Lots of quad work it is then. Yeah, I agree Rick, I have been training pretty hard recently. I was thinking about it tonight, and I think part of the problem is that, well, I haven't had any serious injuries or illness for ages. Normally i'd train hard, get so injured I couldn't train any more, or get flu or something, and then end up having a long break. But I haven't had anything like that for ages....so I guess i'm just plodding along without a break assuming something would eventually come along to stop me!

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