Are Politics Banned on Here?
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| Wiegieboard |  | ... | 03-05-2015 @ 01:47 |
 as crimson as my last victims underclothing..... Member 899, 11338 posts SQ 180, BP 132.5, DL 190502.5 kgs @ 118kgs UnEq | PS. I'm 15 pints in | ||
| McMuffin_Gains |  | ... | 03-05-2015 @ 01:56 |
 Help me rescue my Insulina. Member 5366, 1090 posts | Aside from your double and triple posting I am very impressed with your grammar and punctuation for 15 pints in! | ||
| PhillippeHalter | | ... | 03-05-2015 @ 06:46 |
 Are horror films healthy...? Member 5449, 2203 posts | Luke82 said: Please enlighten me. If and when the excellent four questions you asked in your previous post get answered... | ||
| luki | | ... | 03-05-2015 @ 07:29 |
Avatar Member 5517, 1538 posts SQ 160, BP 165, DL 201526.0 kgs @ 110kgs UnEq | Wiegieboard said:PS. I'm 15 pints in Do you know you repeat yourself when your drunk?-) | ||
| dannyboy73 | | ... | 03-05-2015 @ 07:33 |
Mask it or Casket !! Member 4600, 8166 posts SQ 240, BP 162.5, DL 255657.5 kgs @ 90.5kgs UnEq | Post Edited: 03.05.2015 @ 07:51 AM by dannyboy73 Not an ecomonist.err, alternatives, shop local support local business, form/support cooperatives, stop reading the daily mail,forget what you parents told you that any job is better than no job - you are better off not working than working for a zero sum gain. stop blaming benifits- it less than 2% of our spend...much much more goes on tax avoidance and trident...this is what you should be anoyed about. also, boycot hoiany buisness that ship head office abroad. oh, yes trident...23 billion a year, cut 2 subs-we will still have enough to nuk the world anyhow- spent them billions on council housing employing british workers and setting up polytechnics. its not about life in the west...happiness studies reveal that its local inequality not global that causes mental health issues/ and escapism behavior such as drug taking.if you live next to a gated community and work 70 hours a week to break even, expect to be depressed. also studies now show that life expectancy becoming polerised based on wealth...not because there is no good food/exercise about, but because of stress and a live for the day because there's no way out apathy, created by lack of opportunity as the free market fights to reduce wages and have highly responsible jobs that are paid peanuts. Luke82 said: Who'd lend them the money to start the low businesses with no banks? What are people's alternatives? Do people really think we have it so bad since 2008? How good do people expect life to be here in the west that what we are experiencing now is being 'screwed over'? Mate, i just want to live in a fairer country. My issue is that I dont want to vote for any of them, none represent me and by giving my vote I hand over my power and I ligitimise them...the dilemma is that I also dont want a tori government to completely ruin the low-paid working family. I still dont know if I should vote none of the above or for labour war mongering t**ts. | ||
| luki | | ... | 03-05-2015 @ 08:02 |
Avatar Member 5517, 1538 posts SQ 160, BP 165, DL 201526.0 kgs @ 110kgs UnEq | Post Edited: 03.05.2015 @ 08:10 AM by luki Luke82 said: Who'd lend them the money to start the low businesses with no banks? What are people's alternatives? Do people really think we have it so bad since 2008? How good do people expect life to be here in the west that what we are experiencing now is being 'screwed over'? Our banks went bust. UK and Dutch government loaned Irish taxpayers billions to pay back UK and Dutch investment funds who had speculated on Irish bank finance. We basically paid for someone's gambling habit. Then the banks wouldn't lend because their loans portfolio was full of property that wasn't worth anything. So we bankrupted developers (and created mass unemployment and huge emigration) and nationalised the bad debts into a bank owned by the taxpayer and paid with further loans from Europe. We also took a % share in the good banks. So now the banks had money to loan, but instead they paid bonus's and refused to loan to small business because they said they still hadn't enough cash reserves. So we gave them 0% government loans to increase their cash reserves in order to start lending. They used the money to buy back the government shares in the banks and still won't lend unless you give you house and your first born child up as collateral. Now I admit Irish developers and landlords are in part responsible for the property bouble. However it was banks lending 5x peoples earnings, 120% mortgages and telling people they were millionaires that drove the speculation and values up. It was also the city of London and its dutch equivalent that fueled the speculation on Irish bank loans industry. They are the only sectors 100% insured from the crash. I pay over 60% tax now if you factor in charges and Levy's. I get less government services than I did in 2008. Ireland will be paying to bail out the banking system until 2052 at a cost before interest of 68billion. My kids if I ever have them will owe 17k at birth to ECB and IMF banks for debts accrued before their birth. We also sold everything from water to forests and infrastructure to Chinese and Russian "investors." So to answer your first point my taxes seem to be paying for everything so why don't we cut out the middleman and try government enterprise loans instead of leech banks and finance speculators. The rest of your questions are despite the banks Europe is still a good place to live because of the people, not because of their Shylocking. | ||
| Luke82 | | ... | 03-05-2015 @ 09:00 |
 Enjoys his parents fully stocked fridge. Member 3476, 868 posts SQ 170, BP 136, DL 217.5523.5 kgs @ 95kgs UnEq | The reason the government bailed the banks out wasn't for chuckles, it's because if the banking system had collapsed properly we'd have been royally screwed. Turnip-fight level screwed. So while I agree that the banks did some s**tty risky things in the lead up to the 2008 crash and it hit the entire world economy pretty hard, it's a real leap to suddenly say 'let's f**k the banks off and start local co-ops and communes and return to the Middle Ages, man.' Boom and bust is part of the cycle of economic growth. You can say about the evils of capitalism all you like, and how you disbelieve the 'trickle down' theory all you want but the evidence is all around that it works out pretty well for those living in the developed world. Go to the third world and have a goosey around if you disbelieve it. You have the opportunity, afforded to you by capitalism, to move out of this land that is clearly so unfair and terrible to somewhere less effected by banks, like the lawless parts of somalia, or more socialist, like china. Flights will be cheap (free market and all that). We are not removed from natures cycle and as long as we as humans need resources capitalism will always be the only way. Any socialist experiment has always led to the proletariat being even more down trodden and at the whims of the ruling class than a free market system. It's because socialism is contrary to human nature, and starts with this flawed notion that all people are equal. That's horses**t. Some people are gonna be CEOs, and some people are gonna be cleaning their offices. There's nothing wrong with either of those roles, but one is gonna pay more. Some people are so useless as to be incapable of fulfilling any role in society and it's these people who need marching off a cliff, not subsidising and encouraged to breed. This notion that people are better off claiming the dole than working a low paid job is also ridiculous. There are no promotion chances on the dole. If I had two people come to me for a job, and one had been working at Burger King, and one told me how special he was that he was above a low paid job and was therefore sitting at home watching cbeebies waiting for Alan Sugar to call him, I know who'd be getting the job. And besides, those bohemians who would rather claim benefits than work are swiftly finding out how quickly it can be pulled away. Look how many people found work once the benefit cap came into force. P.s. The nuclear deterrent is awesome! It's kept the world's great powers from going toe to toe for 70 years now. Getting rid of it would be a pretty daft idea given how close some of the less stable regions in the world either have them or are close to developing them. That particular genie is out of the bottle I'm afraid. | ||
| luki | | ... | 03-05-2015 @ 09:29 |
Avatar Member 5517, 1538 posts SQ 160, BP 165, DL 201526.0 kgs @ 110kgs UnEq | No need to go to the 3rd world Luke. 28% of Irish children are living in poverty as a result of boom and bust. Half our pensioners have no pensions because the shares are gone. Greece is far worse with 55k depending on food handouts to eat and 600k kids living in poverty (defined as not enough food to eats and no heat light.) I'm not saying sign up to a commune or join the people republic of China. I'm pro business which creates products. I think shares, finance and commodities trading doesn't make anything except debtors out of normal people. You may be happy to eat the crumbs off the floor (trickle down theory), but I like to try putting people ahead of profits. | ||
| LessThanLuke | | ... | 03-05-2015 @ 09:31 |
 his poor male ego must be crushed Member 883, 6251 posts SQ 290, BP 180, DL 420890.0 kgs @ 105kgs UnEq | You sound like someone who's never had to work a low paid zero hour contract luke. | ||
| dannyboy73 | | ... | 03-05-2015 @ 10:15 |
Mask it or Casket !! Member 4600, 8166 posts SQ 240, BP 162.5, DL 255657.5 kgs @ 90.5kgs UnEq | Post Edited: 03.05.2015 @ 10:15 AM by dannyboy73 Luke, you are very very worng on many accounts. However, since most of us earn under 40k a year and/or witness first hand how people are struggling because of Tori policies... and in general we mainly lean to the left.I do respect you for swimming against the tide here on this forum though. I am not a hippy though or a hipster. I am a family man who believes in social justice. I also disagree that we would devolve if everything went to pot...For example, we have evolved so much ethically in the past 30 years let alone 10000...I think that most people would protect the weak in a apocalyptic scenario, it would be the greedy and unethical that would get strung up first. Capitalism does not distribute resources fairly..it squeezes those just above water because these people believe that they can get out of the water..the past 5 years have made the majority of low-paid and educated working people stop believing that...unless your a gambler of course | ||
| 1369phil | | ... | 03-05-2015 @ 10:25 |
 doesnt work hard enough in the gym Member 1492, 2138 posts SQ 170, BP 145, DL 195510.0 kgs @ 112kgs UnEq | Luke82 said:The reason the government bailed the banks out wasn't for chuckles, it's because if the banking system had collapsed properly we'd have been royally screwed. Turnip-fight level screwed. So while I agree that the banks did some s**tty risky things in the lead up to the 2008 crash and it hit the entire world economy pretty hard, it's a real leap to suddenly say 'let's f**k the banks off and start local co-ops and communes and return to the Middle Ages, man.' Boom and bust is part of the cycle of economic growth. You can say about the evils of capitalism all you like, and how you disbelieve the 'trickle down' theory all you want but the evidence is all around that it works out pretty well for those living in the developed world. Go to the third world and have a goosey around if you disbelieve it. You have the opportunity, afforded to you by capitalism, to move out of this land that is clearly so unfair and terrible to somewhere less effected by banks, like the lawless parts of somalia, or more socialist, like china. Flights will be cheap (free market and all that). We are not removed from natures cycle and as long as we as humans need resources capitalism will always be the only way. Any socialist experiment has always led to the proletariat being even more down trodden and at the whims of the ruling class than a free market system. It's because socialism is contrary to human nature, and starts with this flawed notion that all people are equal. That's horses**t. Some people are gonna be CEOs, and some people are gonna be cleaning their offices. There's nothing wrong with either of those roles, but one is gonna pay more. Some people are so useless as to be incapable of fulfilling any role in society and it's these people who need marching off a cliff, not subsidising and encouraged to breed. This notion that people are better off claiming the dole than working a low paid job is also ridiculous. There are no promotion chances on the dole. If I had two people come to me for a job, and one had been working at Burger King, and one told me how special he was that he was above a low paid job and was therefore sitting at home watching cbeebies waiting for Alan Sugar to call him, I know who'd be getting the job. And besides, those bohemians who would rather claim benefits than work are swiftly finding out how quickly it can be pulled away. Look how many people found work once the benefit cap came into force. P.s. The nuclear deterrent is awesome! It's kept the world's great powers from going toe to toe for 70 years now. Getting rid of it would be a pretty daft idea given how close some of the less stable regions in the world either have them or are close to developing them. That particular genie is out of the bottle I'm afraid. Very well said | ||
| Luke82 | | ... | 03-05-2015 @ 10:34 |
Enjoys his parents fully stocked fridge. Member 3476, 868 posts SQ 170, BP 136, DL 217.5523.5 kgs @ 95kgs UnEq | LessThanLuke said:You sound like someone who's never had to work a low paid zero hour contract luke. True, I've never worked on a zero hour contract per se, but I never had a silver spoon in my mouth at any point either. When I dropped out of college I went to work at McDonald's on little more than minimum wage with no set hours, which is pretty s**t. I lived on my own in a rented room at this point as well. But at no point did I think 'oh well f**k it I'm screwed because I wasn't born into a bank job' and decide to give up and sit on the dole. I did what people have done before our generation decided that we should be entitled to a share of someone else's wages for some reason and worked hard to make sure I could get good references when I went looking for another job, which I managed. I joined the military eventually, and when I left there I went back to labouring on tuppence a day, back in a bed sit after getting divorced. Again, I didn't think I'd be better off sat on my arse. Not trying to flash my working class credentials or anything but please don't think I come from some sort of privileged back ground or something and am looking down at the peasants. I am very much a peasant myself! My original point wasn't that banks are great and faultless and we should all be dancing in the streets about how awesome TSB is or something, just that; A) it's no good moaning without coming up with a different, better system B) you can't blame bankers bonuses on your position in life. C) thousands of people are drowning in the med to reach 'screwed over' Europe, and it's the opportunities in Europe they are seeking, not the benefits D) people dislike benefit scroungers more than bankers / tax dodgers / rich people because they understand not wanting to pay tax more than being a parasite, and live comparable life styles around people who contribute nothing, and not Tarquin Poncenberry spending his million pound bonus on an ivory ball scratcher. On the last point, a little while ago I was able to buy a house on a new build development (help to buy, thanks bankers!). Part of new build development planning rules is that they add some housing for local authority. So I moved in, and Lo and behold opposite me, in an exact same house no less, was someone I worked at with McDonald's all those moons ago. He hadn't worked since then, claiming depression and paranoia to be signed off sick for the past sixteen years. He told me this with a smirk. He'd been living on the social ever since, with his kids in his house. I took me sixteen years of work to get the equivalent without begging. And this is what pisses people off more than banker's speed boats. P.s. Really enjoying this debate guys. | ||
| WILLSAN | | ... | 03-05-2015 @ 11:32 |
 Trump will get another four years Member 126, 16707 posts SQ 160, BP 110, DL 225495.0 kgs @ 75kgs UnEq | holy s**t! I just wrote a goddam essay about this and then it failed to post and disappeared. f**k. | ||
| luki | | ... | 03-05-2015 @ 11:33 |
Avatar Member 5517, 1538 posts SQ 160, BP 165, DL 201526.0 kgs @ 110kgs UnEq | "Moaning" lol. It is actually having a conversation about coming up with something new. Its important to democracy that we evaluate what works and what doesn't and evolve and renew. Only a fool doesn't learn from mistakes. You have 2 parties now with the same ideas protecting a broken system. Austerity. A lot of us think 5% controlling 80% of wealth is not on. Capitalism in Britain/Ireland/USA since the Thatcher/Regan era is out of balance in favour of business over environment and people. I'd like to see caping wages at 500k (Germany has rules on this), rent control (like Sweden), media broken up to get rid of monopolies in print (Murdock and Denis O'Brien have way too much power), more free education to help people help themselves and a whole load of other stuff that's common sense. I'd pay for it by introducing 15% tax on spread bets and join france and germany in looking for an EU wide corporation tax charge 15%. Anyone offshoring profits to dodge tax gets a 50% tax on money leaving the country. I'd also nationalise oil, gas, coal like Norway has. | ||
| WILLSAN | | ... | 03-05-2015 @ 11:50 |
Trump will get another four years Member 126, 16707 posts SQ 160, BP 110, DL 225495.0 kgs @ 75kgs UnEq | cant be arsed to rewrite that right now. but, in short, my solution is WAS to let the banks fall in 2008. prosecute the bankers whose whose financial mismanagement and fraud caused the crisis. then rebuild the banking system with legislation firmly separating retail and investment banks. however, that is all by the by as none of that was done and the problem is now much, much worse. basically, there is a financial collapse coming from which there is no solution.  I will explain this fully if I get some spare time. | ||
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