Westside BB for a natty?

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Steve		...	31-12-2013 @ 23:44
nothing to hide, please follow my life on webcam Member 255, 3732 posts	AMH_Power said: All the achievements you posted are equipped. A modified routine can cover a vast difference in programmes. If wsbb was so good, it wouldn't need modifying. The only way to be sure is try it for yourself, gains are gains, but I believe intelligent programming using super compensation to its fullest will trump a collection of similar exercises performed to 1rm week in week out. Sure some things may carry over, but you don't need to worry about carryover to a lift when you actually train the lift frequently. The majority of people and gym warriors naturally do westside style of training by maxing bench weekly and doing reps with accessory work. As soon as they move to linear the gains are much higher. If I had 3 month to improve my lift by the biggest margin possible, I'd be training THAT lift day in day out with varying volume and intensity. The last thing on my mind would be how much I could box squat or close grip inclined board band press. Why should 1rm max lifts week in week out not be an effective programme? There are hundreds (thousands?) of Bulgarian weightlifters who also prove that lifting to max week in week can work. I suspect most of the GBPF equipped lifters could have done well unequipped if they wished. I know my wife for example whilst never competing unequipped could still narrow grip bench 115kg at 67bwt unequipped and deadlift triple bwt.

milsy		...	01-01-2014 @ 00:04
Ne n coner a fuickex .ay ouse part we .be Member 1425, 4647 posts SQ 340, BP 227.5, DL 335 902.5 kgs @ 125kgs UnEq	Steve said: Why should 1rm max lifts week in week out not be an effective programme? There are hundreds (thousands?) of Bulgarian weightlifters who also prove that lifting to max week in week can work. I suspect most of the GBPF equipped lifters could have done well unequipped if they wished. I know my wife for example whilst never competing unequipped could still narrow grip bench 115kg at 67bwt unequipped and deadlift triple bwt. Well said Steve I think people fail to see unequipped lifting is still quite knew to the world stage therefore most elite level lifters have only ever been concerned with thier equipped lifts no doubt the elite guys and girls will still be the elite in and out of the kit

AMH_Power		...	01-01-2014 @ 00:18
we ride at dawn Member 4363, 1442 posts SQ 310, BP 250, DL 320 880.0 kgs @ 104kgs UnEq	Post Edited: 01.01.2014 @ 00:19 AM by AMH_Power Steve said: Why should 1rm max lifts week in week out not be an effective programme? There are hundreds (thousands?) of Bulgarian weightlifters who also prove that lifting to max week in week can work. I suspect most of the GBPF equipped lifters could have done well unequipped if they wished. I know my wife for example whilst never competing unequipped could still narrow grip bench 115kg at 67bwt unequipped and deadlift triple bwt. Females can lift at higher % of their Max than males more often as the weights are a lot lighter. The Bulgarian method is still in block periods, even then the 1rm daily/weekly is on squats predominantly, rarely Deadlift, and is a very conservative 1rm. Second to this the Bulgarians (weightlifters) had the highest failed drug screens out of all nations over a 50 year period. I know what works for me, and recommend on personal experience, not old tales of other lifters and anecdotes. Almost a year of wsbb seen my bench press go nowhere, but seen me get tendonitis, rotator cuff problems and so on. An intelligent progression seen me add over 60kg to my bench with time. If I we're to wsbb again my lifts would decline. Speaking purely from a raw drug free lifter. PS. Only just noticed the time, happy new year...all the best for 2014

milsy		...	01-01-2014 @ 11:11
Ne n coner a fuickex .ay ouse part we .be Member 1425, 4647 posts SQ 340, BP 227.5, DL 335 902.5 kgs @ 125kgs UnEq	You make very good points I train very similar to you from what I have read in a similar post as I too never got anywhere with west side when I started and found much better ways for myself to improve my unequipped numbers Although if my main focus was to train single ply I would go with a westside method as I have tried the high volume approach in kit and just seemed to get worse and worse Everyone is different but you cant just throw methods to one side because they didn't work for you the proof is in the numbers whether or not these athletes would have hit the numbers if they trained another method no one will ever know but it obviously worked for some of the top single ply lifters Powerlifting is changing unequipped is taking over equipped lifting in certain parts of the world and with that will come different methods of training as people look to improve Oh and just to confirm I am talking about tested single ply ipf lifters using the method not Louis gang squatting high in triple ply

AMH_Power		...	01-01-2014 @ 11:25
we ride at dawn Member 4363, 1442 posts SQ 310, BP 250, DL 320 880.0 kgs @ 104kgs UnEq	milsy said:You make very good points I train very similar to you from what I have read in a similar post as I too never got anywhere with west side when I started and found much better ways for myself to improve my unequipped numbers Although if my main focus was to train single ply I would go with a westside method as I have tried the high volume approach in kit and just seemed to get worse and worse Everyone is different but you cant just throw methods to one side because they didn't work for you the proof is in the numbers whether or not these athletes would have hit the numbers if they trained another method no one will ever know but it obviously worked for some of the top single ply lifters Powerlifting is changing unequipped is taking over equipped lifting in certain parts of the world and with that will come different methods of training as people look to improve Oh and just to confirm I am talking about tested single ply ipf lifters using the method not Louis gang squatting high in triple ply I think you hit the nail on the head, everyone is different. But as you said, it didn't work for you, but yet I've not come across someone who correct linear hasn't worked for. Maybe when someone is at the peak of their generic limitations it may work, but I imagine this to be at least a 7x bw total raw. That said, I think dedication and the will to triumph are much bigger factors than the routine. Some people have that drive, and anything will work for them because they give it their all!

DeanW92		...	01-01-2014 @ 11:56
Member 4496, 1446 posts SQ 240, BP 200, DL 300 740.0 kgs @ 112kgs UnEq	How is block periodisation used in the bulgarian method? Does it start out with using more volume instead of a daily max or what?

Steve		...	01-01-2014 @ 12:04
nothing to hide, please follow my life on webcam Member 255, 3732 posts	milsy said:You make very good points I train very similar to you from what I have read in a similar post as I too never got anywhere with west side when I started and found much better ways for myself to improve my unequipped numbers Although if my main focus was to train single ply I would go with a westside method as I have tried the high volume approach in kit and just seemed to get worse and worse Everyone is different but you cant just throw methods to one side because they didn't work for you the proof is in the numbers whether or not these athletes would have hit the numbers if they trained another method no one will ever know but it obviously worked for some of the top single ply lifters Powerlifting is changing unequipped is taking over equipped lifting in certain parts of the world and with that will come different methods of training as people look to improve Oh and just to confirm I am talking about tested single ply ipf lifters using the method not Louis gang squatting high in triple ply Exactly different lifters respond differently and what may be the best schedule for one may not be best for others. I would also argue that an individual may well respond differently to a programme at different times. Just because it doesn't work for you once doesn't mean it won't work better in the future.


AMH_Power		...	01-01-2014 @ 13:20
we ride at dawn Member 4363, 1442 posts SQ 310, BP 250, DL 320 880.0 kgs @ 104kgs UnEq	Steve said: Exactly different lifters respond differently and what may be the best schedule for one may not be best for others. I would also argue that an individual may well respond differently to a programme at different times. Just because it doesn't work for you once doesn't mean it won't work better in the future. I agree with this completely, especially if GPP etc comes into the equation. What's your experience with linear and wsbb Steve? Which did you find to be most effective at your relevant level/experience, ie when you first started, when you got more advanced etc?

Power_nash		...	01-01-2014 @ 13:45
Member 1163, 217 posts SQ 390, BP 302.5, DL 320 1012.5 kgs @ 161kgs Eq	Post Edited: 01.01.2014 @ 13:47 PM by Power_nash this is dean @120kg going heavy on box, i think he only puts kit on for comp http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lidgOIURaX4&feature=c4-feed-u

frankie1parke		...	01-01-2014 @ 14:15
Squat depth : approved. Member 3804, 224 posts SQ 300, BP 180, DL 272.5 752.5 kgs @ 115kgs UnEq	AMH_Power said: Sure some things may carry over, but you don't need to worry about carryover to a lift when you actually train the lift frequently. The majority of people and gym warriors naturally do westside style of training by maxing bench weekly and doing reps with accessory work. As soon as they move to linear the gains are much higher. If I had 3 month to improve my lift by the biggest margin possible, I'd be training THAT lift day in day out with varying volume and intensity. The last thing on my mind would be how much I could box squat or close grip inclined board band press. i can't agree with this more, practice the way you play, all the time spent on accessories could be time spent honing your form on the actual exercise doing more sets and reps,

IrishMarc		...	01-01-2014 @ 14:37
no really Irish Member 1196, 5908 posts SQ 312, BP 230, DL 320 862.0 kgs @ 114kgs UnEq	equipment completly skews this argument if people lifted in the exact same suit with the exact same line no one would use westside. using equipment means getting used to a foreign line and sitting into it with heavy loads. the loads need to be heavy all the time and thats what westside does. the best lifters do equipped historically because where the big comps are. this will change as unequipped becomes more prestegious. westside is not popular or successful with unequipped lifters for a reason as it doesnt allow for skill mastery. accessory is also of low importance for raw lifting in the vast majority of cases. people respond to volume and intensity there is no varience in that. volume of meaningful effort is whats important. the programming of which is an aside.

IrishMarc		...	01-01-2014 @ 14:39
no really Irish Member 1196, 5908 posts SQ 312, BP 230, DL 320 862.0 kgs @ 114kgs UnEq	Power_nash said:this is dean @120kg going heavy on box, i think he only puts kit on for comp http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lidgOIURaX4&feature=c4-feed-u... strong individual.

Power_nash		...	01-01-2014 @ 14:45
Member 1163, 217 posts SQ 390, BP 302.5, DL 320 1012.5 kgs @ 161kgs Eq	I dont like over complicating things, but i think assistance is essential for eliviating weak points in lifts. me and my lifters have had good results from things like pause squats( various stances and bar positions) ,block pulls, CGBP and board press. for raw and equiped.

IrishMarc		...	01-01-2014 @ 14:59
no really Irish Member 1196, 5908 posts SQ 312, BP 230, DL 320 862.0 kgs @ 114kgs UnEq	is that from working portions of the lift or from the extra meaninful volume added to the programme? i have seen accessory work in quite a few cases but usually with lifters who have a mental block with how the lift should be performed. pause squats for instance quickly show a lifter where the best line is for their bar llacment due to the inability to hide. pause bench is great for showing a lifter how to time the leg drive together with the upperbody. weak points in lifts will always exist in the same place its biomechanics and will always where someone fails witj limit weight.

Power_nash		...	01-01-2014 @ 15:23
Member 1163, 217 posts SQ 390, BP 302.5, DL 320 1012.5 kgs @ 161kgs Eq	Post Edited: 01.01.2014 @ 15:23 PM by Power_nash IrishMarc said:is that from working portions of the lift or from the extra meaninful volume added to the programme? i have seen accessory work in quite a few cases but usually with lifters who have a mental block with how the lift should be performed. pause squats for instance quickly show a lifter where the best line is for their bar llacment due to the inability to hide. pause bench is great for showing a lifter how to time the leg drive together with the upperbody. weak points in lifts will always exist in the same place its biomechanics and will always where someone fails witj limit weight. From my experience assistance can be used to push yourself over sticking points in your main lifts, for me very heavy high bar close stance raw pause squats were very helpfull in helping me get stonger off the floor on my dead ( i start in low hip position). and rather than just doing week after week of deads to get rid of the weakness ,i like to nip it in the bud. And though biomechanical weaknesses do exist in lifts ( i have stumpy arms) why not perform exercises that reduce their impact.

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