Interesting and highly civil debate about the Jerk in Strongman

DomRedshaw said:i think sumo shud stay out of strongman. main reason being it will get to the point were we have dwarfs pulling 18" deads sumo style n locking out with the bar bending an inch but the weight not breaking the floor lol

davycummings said:
WRONG
Mega hitch deadlift moves point A to point B, ie floor to standing up
Sumo moves from point A to somewhere well short of point B, as you are never properly stood up.
Martin's suggestion about moving the feet in should be a requirement for all sumo lifting as it is imo.
Would you allow someone to pull the truck 3/4 of the course and call it good?

brownbear said:
I see what you say, but even conventional stance widths vary greatly.
Brian shaws conv stance is wider than ed coans sumo but his hands are outside

IrishMarc said:dimensional biomechanical analysis of sumo and conventional style deadlifts.
(PMID:10912892)
Abstract
Citations
BioEntities
Related Articles
Escamilla RF, Francisco AC, Fleisig GS, Barrentine SW, Welch CM, Kayes AV, Speer KP, Andrews JR
Division of Orthopaedic Surgery, Duke University Medical Center, Durham, NC 27710, USA. rescamil@duke.edu
Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise [2000, 32(7):1265-1275]
Type: Journal Article

DOI: 10.1097/00005768-200007000-00013

Abstract Highlight Terms
Species(1)
PURPOSE: Strength athletes often employ the deadlift in their training or rehabilitation regimens. The purpose of this study was to quantify kinematic and kinetic parameters by employing a three-dimensional analysis during sumo and conventional style deadlifts.

METHODS: Two 60-Hz video cameras recorded 12 sumo and 12 conventional style lifters during a national powerlifting championship. Parameters were quantified at barbell liftoff (LO), at the instant the barbell passed the knees (KP), and at lift completion. Unpaired t-tests (P < 0.05) were used to compare all parameters.

RESULTS: At LO and KP, thigh position was 11-16 degrees more horizontal for the sumo group, whereas the knees and hips extended approximately 12 degrees more for the conventional group. The sumo group had 5-10 degrees greater vertical trunk and thigh positions, employed a wider stance (70 +/- 11 cm vs 32 +/- 8 cm), turned their feet out more (42 +/- 8 vs 14 +/- 6 degrees). and gripped the bar with their hands closer together (47 +/- 4 cm vs 55 +/- 10 cm). Vertical bar distance, mechanical work, and predicted energy expenditure were approximately 25-40% greater in the conventional group. Hip extensor, knee extensor, and ankle dorsiflexor moments were generated for the sumo group, whereas hip extensor, knee extensor, knee flexor, and ankle plantar flexor moments were generated for the conventional group. Ankle and knee moments and moment arms were significantly different between the sumo and conventional groups, whereas hip moments and moments arms did not show any significantly differences. Three-dimensional calculations were more accurate and significantly different than two-dimensional calculations, especially for the sumo deadlift.

CONCLUSIONS: Biomechanical differences between sumo and conventional deadlifts result from technique variations between these exercises. Understanding these differences will aid the strength coach or rehabilitation specialist in determining which deadlift style an athlete or patient should employ.

DomRedshaw said:i think sumo shud stay out of strongman. main reason being it will get to the point were we have dwarfs pulling 18" deads sumo style n locking out with the bar bending an inch but the weight not breaking the floor lol

baldt said:
strong sample size

IrishMarc said:
Still a 3D biomechanical analysis of 24 lifters carries a bit more weight then the "Your a dick and your wrong because my mate herpty derp did this" counter argument.

FAT_SAM said:Hitching is gay, not a proper deadlift IMO. A clean sumo pull is a proper deadlift on the other hand.

Overhead jerks are for people with no shoulders and triceps. I like old school strict pressing, pure power.

I don't like suits in strongman, too much of an added kit expense. If you want to lift in kit do equipped PL, which I respect as a sport.

Might I add that I get NOTHING out of a deadlift suit or a hitch (annoying when I can pull 315 to PL standards raw and guys that pull 270-280 to PL standards raw would beat me in a strongman comp where such luxuries are allowed).

Jerks being allowed allow people who aren't strong to perform to a decent level in overhead events.

martinb said:
my first big comp had a caveman press, ie press on a normal bar from behind the neck
at the time I had a strict press of under 100kgs, but practised this and came up with a bas***dised jerk
I jerked 150, beating guys who basically strict pressed 140. At the time I thought that it was their fault for not learning the tech, but now I'm thinking it just didn't test strength, and isn't that what strongman should do?