Is Competitive Powerlifting a Complete Farce?
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| badboy007 |  | Is Competitive Powerlifting a Complete Farce? | 18-09-2007 @ 02:26 |
Dirty little devil Member 138, 356 posts | Post Edited: 18.09.2007 @ 02:32 AM Hi Fellas,Firstly, I suspect this will be pretty contraversial but I hope everyone is up for a good open-minded debate.. and this is not me being a dick and throwing accusations about. With the caveat in place, (and genuine).. I pose the question, is competitive powerlifting (esp. on an international stage) a complete and utter farce? - Drug tested, not drug free. - Inconsistent OCT for lifers from different countries. - Steroids apparently rampant at all levels of the sport across all feds (even the supposedly drug free ones). - To win a medal internationally is almost impossible I suspect without taking *something* at *some point*..I'm sure there's absolute freaks out there that do it though (and I think I know a few of these crazy f**ked up freaks of nature myself). * Whatever happens with Powerlifting, the above points will never, ever be rectified.. How can they be? The bar was set so high even in the 70s when nearly all competitors were eating dianabol with their porridge. * I love powerlifting, the people in it are unlike any other people I've ever met.. I think grassroots powerlifting, local meets, even national meets is bloody awesome, and as long as you have fun it doesn't really matter what you take or don't take (even if it's tested). Note my comments above are only really applicable to competitve powerlifting, esp. on an international level. Oly lifting is somewhat different and I know jack s**t about that anyway. Is competitive powerlifting a farce? I would like to see an increase in local, small, independantly run club meets. Proper ref'ing and equipment, but with none of the BS of the international PL scene. There's probs 5-6 clubs that could turn out a 3 lifter team (lightweight up to 75k, middleweight up to 100k, heavyweight 100+) in the NW alone. For me personally, it would be a bigger acheivement to get onto an Adlington three lift team than win a national title. You probably have a few heavyweights capable of 800kg totals drug free and with sensible equip, and a handful of middleweights capable of crushing any unequipped comp they wished to enter.. The lightweights I'm not too sure about but I still think Ste has a big total in him!  | ||
| little_a | | ... | 18-09-2007 @ 07:25 |
 still a devious weightlifting bastard Member 43, 14374 posts | Originally posted by badboy007... * Whatever happens with Powerlifting, the above points will never, ever be rectified.. How can they be? The bar was set so high even in the 70s when nearly all competitors were eating dianabol with their porridge. Are you telling me that the use of performance enhancing drugs was more prevallent and educated 20-30 years ago than today? Sorry Andy but thats absolute bollox. The decline in acheivement and participation levels in such hardcore (& pretty much all) sports is down to a less manual, decadent, 'something for nothing' attitude towards/ style of life in general. Lets not forget that we now have the first generation of Brits that are so unfit that they are expected to die before their parents. How do you get champion sportsmen out of a pool like that? Performance enhancing drugs have been around a lot longer than the modern olympics, steroids since the early/ mid 40's. To point the finger at any particular period between then and now is at the least very naive. | ||
| Icepick | | ... | 18-09-2007 @ 08:12 |
 still a cock Member 55, 1213 posts SQ 50, BP 25, DL 55130.0 kgs @ 0.1kgs UnEq | From a personal view, I'm against drugs, but to say PL is a farce because of it is a bit ott, all you have to do is look at the Olympic sports, almost every sport there is tainted, even movie actors are on some stuff. For me, if that is your profession and it's earning you money, then good luck to you, take all the drugs you want! But what I find really sad is the amount of people from regular bbers to powerlifters that are taking this s**t just to boost their ego, those people are out of pocket and f**king them self up and a large majority of this bunch are not even amongst the elite despite their drug use. | ||
| Joni | | ... | 18-09-2007 @ 09:02 |
 left the country satisfied Member 10, 19241 posts SQ 240, BP 150, DL 270660.0 kgs @ 107kgs UnEq | i dont think you should pick on powerlifting any more than say 100m sprinters or other sports and athletes. The drug testing is not a farce, it regularly catches folk, and keeps a lid on people going apes**t on strong s**t - same than in any sport. It wont root it out totally, but will keep a lid on it. Also because there is not any money in powerlifting, i would guess there is less drug use than in cycling, or high profile track and field sports who can take all kinds of designer stuff costing a mint. | ||
| Cuddles | | ... | 18-09-2007 @ 09:13 |
 Eat.Cycle.Sleep.Win Member 2, 12511 posts SQ 190, BP 150, DL 280620.0 kgs @ 99kgs UnEq Administrator | Originally posted by little_a... Originally posted by badboy007... * Whatever happens with Powerlifting, the above points will never, ever be rectified.. How can they be? The bar was set so high even in the 70s when nearly all competitors were eating dianabol with their porridge. Are you telling me that the use of performance enhancing drugs was more prevallent and educated 20-30 years ago than today? Sorry Andy but thats absolute bollox. The decline in acheivement and participation levels in such hardcore (& pretty much all) sports is down to a less manual, decadent, 'something for nothing' attitude towards/ style of life in general. Lets not forget that we now have the first generation of Brits that are so unfit that they are expected to die before their parents. How do you get champion sportsmen out of a pool like that? Performance enhancing drugs have been around a lot longer than the modern olympics, steroids since the early/ mid 40's. To point the finger at any particular period between then and now is at the least very naive. Whilst I agree with everything that you are saying there. Im not really sure that was Andys point. | ||
| Cuddles | | ... | 18-09-2007 @ 09:21 |
Eat.Cycle.Sleep.Win Member 2, 12511 posts SQ 190, BP 150, DL 280620.0 kgs @ 99kgs UnEq Administrator | I think its pretty obvious that drugs are prevelant across powerlifting, not just across the international scene but at regional and national levels too. It wont change, but Joni makes a point that I agree with; drugs are prevelant across any sport where they can help. Track and Field, Powerlifting, Olympic Lifting, Contact Sports, Cycling, even swimming. Im not totally in favour of drugs, despite loving the sports where they seem to be most prevelant. To me its one of those issues where id like to be an idealist but a sense of realism quashes that pretty quickly. Id go as far to say that it's impossible to eradicate, doesnt mean we should stop trying though. I have a real problem in powerliftig now with guys who compete in tested comps whilst 'on'. I could understand it a lot more when BAWLA provided the only real competition, but that isnt the case anymore. There are plenty of places to go and compete no matter what you're using, equipment, drugs, frilly lace panties. Why the need to cheat in a BWLA comp? (and this isnt just British lifters, its across the whole IPF spectrum, and yes, I am an idealist). | ||
| little_a | | ... | 18-09-2007 @ 11:56 |
still a devious weightlifting bastard Member 43, 14374 posts | Originally posted by Olly... Whilst I agree with everything that you are saying there. Im not really sure that was Andys point. Then I agree for missing his point on the understanding that I dont get an STD  Simplified, I think it's very easy for people nowadays to point the finger at the athletes of yesteryear and say "Thats why..." when in fact the same things are going on today, if not on a bigger scale. Joni mate - have to disagree. Drug testing in it's current format serves 2 purposes and neither is of any benefit to sport. 1) Political card. Authorities from the top down can 'claim' to be doing all they can to keep the sport clean to keep the unsuspecting public happy. 2) £££$$$'s WADA is now a multi £billion a year business and it will not stop anytime soon. When they have completely f**ked up the sporting world with their blind incompetence, they'll look round for new quarry. Motorist's? Employee's? Still, if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about. Just ask Diane Modahl http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diane_Modahl | ||
| badboy007 | | ... | 18-09-2007 @ 12:06 |
Dirty little devil Member 138, 356 posts | Post Edited: 18.09.2007 @ 12:55 PM "Are you telling me that the use of performance enhancing drugs was more prevallent and educated 20-30 years ago than today?"I don't think I meant what you interpreted here. Less educated? Clearly not. "Whatever happens with Powerlifting, the above points will never, ever be rectified.. How can they be? The bar was set so high even in the 70s when nearly all competitors were eating dianabol with their porridge." My point here was, that since steroid use has been so prevalent for so long, a totally 'clean' organisation could never happen... The perception of strength in terms of powerlifting has been distorted by what has happened to powerlifting...in fact all strength sports. I was playing devils advocate here to a certain degree also. I am certain that someone is making some serious cash out of steroids in sport.. Pharmacy co's probs! What do you guys think about a return to grassroots club-based competition? An Adlington team? | ||
| Finch | | ... | 18-09-2007 @ 13:57 |
 Gonna outlive my opposition !! Member 123, 4038 posts SQ 202.5, BP 135.0, DL 232.5570.0 kgs @ 117kgs UnEq | Originally posted by Olly...I have a real problem in powerliftig now with guys who compete in tested comps whilst 'on'. I could understand it a lot more when BAWLA provided the only real competition, but that isnt the case anymore. There are plenty of places to go and compete no matter what you're using, equipment, drugs, frilly lace panties. Why the need to cheat in a BWLA comp? (and this isnt just British lifters, its across the whole IPF spectrum, and yes, I am an idealist). Not sure about the frilly lace panties, but otherwise these are exactly my thoughts. | ||
| WILLSAN | | ... | 18-09-2007 @ 14:08 |
 Trump will get another four years Member 126, 16707 posts SQ 160, BP 110, DL 225495.0 kgs @ 75kgs UnEq | From a complete outsiders point of view the majority high level competetive powerlifting really doesnt interest me for a couple of reasons: - too many variables. All the different feds, equipment, tested/untested, weight catergories, squat depths, rules make following the sport nigh on impossible. The only thing I can really keep a track of is the deadlifting. Although im sure therell be a new super suit that can put 200kg on you deadlift just round the corner. - midgets doing sumo deadlift. sorry I cant take a sport that sanctions this seriously. I will say however that as a participation sport and at grassroots level I think its a good sport and one that I wouldnt mind having a crack at one day. | ||
| Joni | | ... | 18-09-2007 @ 14:25 |
left the country satisfied Member 10, 19241 posts SQ 240, BP 150, DL 270660.0 kgs @ 107kgs UnEq | little_a, aye i know next to nothing about the testing regimes so i am willing to learn more about the mismanagement of it all, but on principle on comp and out of comp testing is strict enough as it is i think (again, only superficial knowledge of it). One thing i am against strongly is the whereabouts clauses and strict monitoring of movement. In any other workplace situation folk would have kicked up a massive fuss about it, but in sports these violations of privacy and treating people guilty by default seem to go on unopposed. | ||
| Rob | | ... | 18-09-2007 @ 14:34 |
 Does f*ck all for SugdenBarbell.co.uk Member 1, 7173 posts SQ 182.5, BP 110, DL 205497.5 kgs @ 107kgs UnEq Administrator | I'm sure I read somewhere that you no longer need to fill that in for powerlifting with BWLA, but the weightlifting section still do. | ||
| jimblanchflower | | ... | 18-09-2007 @ 14:34 |
Teabagger for hire Member 54, 237 posts | I am sure that I have made this point on this forum before, but it is worth repeating. In PL there are still top competitors who are clean. The biggest numbers at the moment in this country are from Clive Henry and Dean Bowering. I am convinced that these guys are clean. They hold a host of medals between them, including the European and World golds. If you want to know how good you can get without drugs, look to these two. It is dispiriting sometimes at an international to have to lift against someone who you suspect of taking drugs, but those guys can still be beaten. | ||
| badboy007 | | ... | 18-09-2007 @ 14:36 |
Dirty little devil Member 138, 356 posts | Post Edited: 18.09.2007 @ 14:36 PM It is pretty obvious that the top lifters in the sport are protected from testing.. I don't know how.. I don't care how.. But if you follow the progress of the certain lifters at national comps, it's pretty self-evident.I also think it's wrong when you have men weighing 200lbs 'benching' 800lbs in competition... I think we should start a NW club lifting competition.. knee wraps only allowed, decent referee's (maybe with every lift video'd for evidence).. and only three weight classes. We could have club records and NW records.. It would also turn the sport into more of a 'team' sport. | ||
| badboy007 | | ... | 18-09-2007 @ 14:39 |
Dirty little devil Member 138, 356 posts | Post Edited: 18.09.2007 @ 14:53 PM I agree Jim,"I'm sure there's absolute freaks out there that do it though (and I think I know a few of these crazy f**ked up freaks of nature myself)." I don't want to get into debates about individual lifters, because we will never know. I do know more about powerlifting in the West Mids in particular than i'm letting on, and again I don't wanna get into this! If yhou found someone squatting 965+ lbs in single ply gear, great depth, drug free, then they would be the best squatter to ever walk the face of the earth. Period. | ||