strength vs power and inclusion of exercises

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Shaun		...	19-01-2012 @ 12:46
Member 1668, 1499 posts SQ 186, BP 102, DL 211 499.0 kgs @ 93kgs UnEq	bjm81 said: Do the laws of physics not apply in the weights room?! Power = Force x Velocity Yes, but it can be incredibly difficult to correctly apply these laws in the real world and often we're not really interested in the amount of Joules the lifter has applied to the bar per second, but rather the benefit that doing so has to said lifter. We know that things like the olympic lifts and jumps help make an athlete more "explosive", which is what we're really interested in. We could do the calculations and find that some lifters are generating more power on the slow lifts due to the much heavier weights involved for all I know. But it would probably be incorrect to then redefine much of what is known about making athletes more explosive.

Luke27		...	19-01-2012 @ 13:04
lets get learning !!! Member 1598, 723 posts SQ 210, BP 130, DL 200 540.0 kgs @ 83kgs UnEq	Its quite easy to work out power although you don't have to as hundreds of studies on and highest power is within 40-60% of 1rm , literally hundred of studies , however to be powerful you have to have very high strength , something that is missed to have high power output you have to have high absolute strength. Shot putter for example very powerfull and explosive because there absolute strength is massive whilst also being very fest for their size

mikex101		...	19-01-2012 @ 15:52
never too old Member 637, 760 posts	Post Edited: 19.01.2012 @ 15:55 PM by mikex101 If brother A takes 3 seconds to complete a 1RM deadlift and his twin, brother B, takes 2 seconds to complete the same 1RM deadlift then they both have equal strength, however Brother B is more powerful. Being 'explosive' is being powerful. As for training back and bi's. I tend to do a form of chin/pullup atleast 2/3 of the times im in the gym. I also tend to do alot of face pulls, scap pushups etc Dont do a great deal of curls etc but i found i was getting bicep issues recently and curling is helping with rehab of biceps.

slimsim		...	19-01-2012 @ 16:40
My asshole is not watertight. Member 2926, 6050 posts SQ 217.5, BP 107.5, DL 225 550.0 kgs @ 86kgs UnEq	mikex101 said:If brother A takes 3 seconds to complete a 1RM deadlift and his twin, brother B, takes 2 seconds to complete the same 1RM deadlift then they both have equal strength, however Brother B is more powerful. I was thinking about this before in exactly this way but then I thought of an issue with this explanation. Surely for a 1RM to be a true 1RM then the bar speed will have a velocity which is only just enough to overcome inertia or at least the sticking points in a lift. If the bar is moving any greater than this then the lift isn't a true 1RM. So in the instance above brother B could probably press x% more than brother A. On that basis if you are stronger then you will naturally be more powerful and vice versa. I've not got a clue whether that makes sense to anyone but me, or even if it's correct but in my head it sounds right!

Fazc		...	19-01-2012 @ 16:54
Sports an extremely muscular arse. Member 38, 6253 posts	The problem doesn't come with measuring power. Anyone with a stopwatch and a tape measure can measure what's being lifted, over what distance and how fast. The problem comes with taking that measurement then saying conclusively that 'power' is a trainable quality. Any number of factors could cause Brother B to lift faster. Ranging from his technique, to aggression in the pull, to just plain being stronger. If his 1RM is noticeably quicker, in this case some 33% faster then odds are that isn't his true 1RM (as Slim pointed out). That's the issue with the research and tests supporting stuff like this, it's perfectly fine to measure power output but then taking that and jumping to the conclusion that power is a trainable quality is a massive unsubstantiated jump, which just doesn't take into account other more plausible factors. In practice though, what does any of this really matter? I think the more important point that we shouldn't forget is this: http://o.imgbox.com/aacXNb8I.gif?temporary-url---please-use-th...

slimsim		...	19-01-2012 @ 17:01
My asshole is not watertight. Member 2926, 6050 posts SQ 217.5, BP 107.5, DL 225 550.0 kgs @ 86kgs UnEq	errrr, what was the topic of conversation again????????? jiggly titties FTW!!!

slimsim		...	19-01-2012 @ 17:07
My asshole is not watertight. Member 2926, 6050 posts SQ 217.5, BP 107.5, DL 225 550.0 kgs @ 86kgs UnEq	Fazc said:That's the issue with the research and tests supporting stuff like this, it's perfectly fine to measure power output but then taking that and jumping to the conclusion that power is a trainable quality is a massive unsubstantiated jump, which just doesn't take into account other more plausible factors. THIS! I suppose this is why there are arguments and counter arguments about teaching athletes technical lifts such as power clean, power snatches, when they could just work at getting stronger and focus on speed through lifting at sub maximal poundages. The likely outcome is the same without the time-consuming coaching needed to become proficient in the oly lifts.


Rodger		...	19-01-2012 @ 17:16
salad dodger missing Member 1805, 10367 posts SQ 215, BP 121, DL 240 576.0 kgs @ 100kgs UnEq	nice tits

mikex101		...	19-01-2012 @ 20:13
never too old Member 637, 760 posts	slimsim said: I was thinking about this before in exactly this way but then I thought of an issue with this explanation. Surely for a 1RM to be a true 1RM then the bar speed will have a velocity which is only just enough to overcome inertia or at least the sticking points in a lift. If the bar is moving any greater than this then the lift isn't a true 1RM. So in the instance above brother B could probably press x% more than brother A. On that basis if you are stronger then you will naturally be more powerful and vice versa. I've not got a clue whether that makes sense to anyone but me, or even if it's correct but in my head it sounds right! It makes sense to me My example was very 'laymans' and not atall conclusive. Simply a brief overview of power in weightlifting terms. Fazc said: Any number of factors could cause Brother B to lift faster. Ranging from his technique, to aggression in the pull, to just plain being stronger. If his 1RM is noticeably quicker, in this case some 33% faster then odds are that isn't his true 1RM (as Slim pointed out). True, and again the example isnt all encompassing by any means. That said, if you take a different example and you, as a lifter increase the rate at which you can move a weight while maintaining the same form then would you agree you have increased your 'power' Fazc said: I think the more important point that we shouldn't forget is this: http://o.imgbox.com/aacXNb8I.gif?temporary-url---please-use-th... good point well made!!

Luke27		...	19-01-2012 @ 20:38
lets get learning !!! Member 1598, 723 posts SQ 210, BP 130, DL 200 540.0 kgs @ 83kgs UnEq	slimsim said: THIS! I suppose this is why there are arguments and counter arguments about teaching athletes technical lifts such as power clean, power snatches, when they could just work at getting stronger and focus on speed through lifting at sub maximal poundages. The likely outcome is the same without the time-consuming coaching needed to become proficient in the oly lifts.[/] In general I can see your point. However lifting sub maximal poundage can only go so far, unless you can release the bar you wont get true speed when pressing thus maximal power output is not achieved. Fazc said:That's the issue with the research and tests supporting stuff like this, it's perfectly fine to measure power output but then taking that and jumping to the conclusion that power is a trainable quality is a massive unsubstantiated jump, which just doesn't take into account other more plausible factors.[quote/] Power is most definitely a trainable quality , just depends on the type you need. This is why these definitions are on the whole in adequate. Strength-speed is more appropriate for obvious reasons. Whilst maximal strength is highly important, alot of the best strongmen are incredibly fast before there strongman training, Loz and Terry being brilliant examples of this.

slimsim		...	19-01-2012 @ 21:14
My asshole is not watertight. Member 2926, 6050 posts SQ 217.5, BP 107.5, DL 225 550.0 kgs @ 86kgs UnEq	Luke27 said: In general I can see your point. However lifting sub maximal poundage can only go so far, unless you can release the bar you wont get true speed when pressing thus maximal power output is not achieved. Absolutely brilliant point! I suppose you can achieve true/full speed during the early and mid range of the movement but have to decelerate at the end, but yeah releasing the bar would remove this issue

Rodger		...	19-01-2012 @ 21:23
salad dodger missing Member 1805, 10367 posts SQ 215, BP 121, DL 240 576.0 kgs @ 100kgs UnEq	think the sports injury guy maybe meant i should concentrate in gaining muscle when he said gain strength rather than trying to lift heavy weights fast i dont know. anway when u get back to training will be including upper back work and working to balance out my shoulders with some work for podterior deltoids. hell sound like a bbing geek now....

chaos		...	21-01-2012 @ 09:54
An amazing human being Member 2047, 17156 posts SQ 262.5, BP 170, DL 300 732.5 kgs @ 108kgs UnEq	Rodger said: guess thats a joke about dailt gunz work bruv? Never! Look at my journal there is at least one gun session! Mainly hammer curls, not really for building size per say (I like this phsase at the moment?) more about just strenghtening the arm. Petrified of tearing my bicep and read somewhere hammer culrs help prevent it or summat

Cuddles		...	22-01-2012 @ 11:34
Eat.Cycle.Sleep.Win Member 2, 12511 posts SQ 190, BP 150, DL 280 620.0 kgs @ 99kgs UnEq Administrator	Personally I think that rows are a much better exercise to help keep your shoulders healthy compared to chins, but I would include both in my training. Take a look at face pulls and band pull aparts too. All very quick easy things to tag on to the end of a workout.

Rodger		...	22-01-2012 @ 21:03
salad dodger missing Member 1805, 10367 posts SQ 215, BP 121, DL 240 576.0 kgs @ 100kgs UnEq	[qu ote]Cuddles said:Personally I think that rows are a much better exercise to help keep your shoulders healthy compared to chins, but I would include both in my training. Take a look at face pulls and band pull aparts too. All very quick easy things to tag on to the end of a workout. cheers mate. have added both in now. also face pulls. had been doing pull aparts

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