Bench vs no bench to improve your shoulder press
| JFL |  | Bench vs no bench to improve your shoulder press | 23-09-2013 @ 06:54 |
 Englands strongest man 2011 Member 1342, 246 posts SQ 340, BP 220, DL 380940.0 kgs @ 160kgs Eq | Hi you guys critique to the fine detail so tell me what you think I out this and a few other bits on my athlete page and will add over the next week. Benefits of bench press vs no bench press to improve your shoulder press? With myself I found that bench press had a massive impact on my shoulder pressing strength and made me very tight anteriorly and forced me to hyper extend in my lower and upper back, which although gave me more drive through my chest it put me off balance. This bugged me so much I was forced to abandoned all my exercise therapy knowledge and everything I had ever read about training and had to turn to my physiotherapy routes. I first went back to basics I looked at the movement patterns of my pressing technique. Unlike big bench pressers like Ervin Katona and Derek Poundstone where they press in flat shoes, have short limb in relation to myself (This is not a sizest thing as I have great respect for these guys. It allows them to create bigger forces as they have smaller levers.), and get a massive amount of drive through their chest and triceps. I press in a more upright position I get my press from the power of my jerk and the fast transition from my deltoids to my triceps. I have always pressed in the same shoes I squat in, so I get the power from my legs and also because when pressing in flats I tend to loose my balance. I also have a narrow stance on my press which gives me less stability when trying to utilise my pecs and forced me to use my triceps as I can't extend through my lumbar as much and maintain my stability. So for me bench pressing wasn't ideal to help improve my shoulder pressing technique so to improve I had to improve the strength in the transition phase between the delta and the tricep phase of the press and to increase my tricep power. So to increase my strength in the transition phase I do lots of static seated press and either floor press or close grip bench to increase my tricep power. Skull crushers are also great but ideally you need 2 people and I train on my own so it's a risky exercise if you want to push harder. Also a big tip for overhead pressers is to make sure that you have strong upper trapezius as this will help in stabilising your shoulder girdle. I'm finding as I'm getting stronger that I'm starting to utilise my chest more on pressing and I'm starting to do more upper pec work and have a wide stance when pressing. Whether or not this is a natural progression or me developing my chest to press over head I'm not sure. Probably a combination of both. So overall based on my knowledge about anatomy and human movement I wouldn't suggest that anyone stop bench pressing but if your a keen bencher and you find your struggling with your press there are a lot of variables you need to look at, I.e. shoes, stance, position you press in, your body shape, etc By Lloyd Renals | ||
| Funky_monkey | | ... | 23-09-2013 @ 08:37 |
 403 forbidden message Member 160, 5121 posts SQ 190, BP 137.5, DL 225552.5 kgs @ 86kgs UnEq | Improving your bench will generally mean a strength increase in anterior delt and tricep strength should go up. It's not as good as doing shoulder presses to improve shoulder press strength. At my best bench (160ish raw) I had about a 85kg push press. I know of many strongmen who can bench 140 but push press around 100-110kg | ||
| samue1son | | ... | 23-09-2013 @ 08:38 |
 Member 4416, 1385 posts SQ 210, BP 175, DL 255640.0 kgs @ 122kgs UnEq | Great thread thank you. I'm at the low end of the strength spectrum but benching and shoulder pressing within a near enough period oem time to both recover and grow stroger, are a fine line for me. I've found my benching almost becoming more tricep related, to avoid over stressing the front of my shoulders. I've thought about scrapping bench all together to allow best shoulder recovery but my vanity stops me doing so. | ||
| danbaseley | | ... | 23-09-2013 @ 09:04 |
 A member for 10 years and still no mouldy peanuts Member 1252, 4723 posts SQ 160, BP 120, DL 215495.0 kgs @ 98kgs UnEq | Terry Hollands supplements his overhead pressing with close-grip benching on his videos; I think it's one of those 'focus on one - but don't forget the other' issues. | ||
| ursus | | ... | 23-09-2013 @ 10:47 |
 Man up and have a fuckin coffee Member 2086, 9717 posts SQ 340, BP 252.5, DL 300892.5 kgs @ 158kgs UnEq | nice read Lloyd | ||
| plonker | | ... | 23-09-2013 @ 11:16 |
The world famous projectile vomit master Member 1293, 443 posts SQ 210, BP 155, DL 280645.0 kgs @ 105kgs UnEq | I used to like a bit of bench.... Tore my pec one time... So once I had recovered I just did more shoulder pressing to replace my bench session... Didn't take too long to beat my Pre-tear strict pb... | ||
| cowie | | ... | 23-09-2013 @ 14:27 |
 Member 3740, 1686 posts | Not unlike Plonler I also tore my pec about three years ago, at the time I was @ 5 x 3 @ 145kg Bench (natural lifter). Ive never been a big bencher by any means & I think this was the first time I put some effort into getting a half decent Bench albeit for low reps. On the flip side my shoulder/tricep strength has always been good, hitting a comfotable 8 reps Rev Grip Bench @ 160kg back in the day. Since the pec tear I've seldom went above 110kg on the Bench but have hit 125kg Strict Bar & 130 Strict Log in recent months, Rev Grip Bench & Flat Bench Log are my main assistance movements at present Niggling shoulder injuries have also become almost none existant since the injury too Very unlikely that my experiance will bear any relevance to yours so in short bench did f**k all for me, all the best for your future training anyhoo | ||
| Fazc | | ... | 23-09-2013 @ 15:01 |
 Sports an extremely muscular arse. Member 38, 6253 posts | Good post. More like this please  | ||
| Thing | | ... | 23-09-2013 @ 15:20 |
 a large fingered spastic that demolishes plant Member 89, 31706 posts SQ 260, BP 220, DL 290770.0 kgs @ 142kgs UnEq | Nice info LLoyd | ||
| FAT_SAM | | ... | 24-09-2013 @ 03:07 |
 more like 'FAT TROLL' Member 984, 6331 posts SQ 420, BP 260, DL 3351015.0 kgs @ 165kgs UnEq | Another good read, Lloyd. I enjoyed your article on fb about jerk vs push vs strict aswell. For me (I press in flat shoes), bench pressing directly carries over to overhead stuff. Back when I had a 200kg bench I had a 150kg log max and it looked awful. By getting my bench to 245kg my log went up to 170kg strict and that was with NO direct training on a log. I am short, with short arms, and I can't jerk to save my life, though. | ||
| JamesH | | ... | 25-09-2013 @ 22:04 |
 my buttocks hurt Member 337, 2119 posts SQ 300, BP 140, DL 305745.0 kgs @ 125kgs Eq | Interesting read. I'm a shockingly bad bencher and slightly less awful push presser. I find that shoulder width grip bench with some sort of incline gives me a good carryover. Provided I can bench a weight like this, I can push press it. Beyond that I have to rebend/jerk, which is ok for axle but useless for log and takes a lot of energy. Strict presses are helpful too. I'm finding that as I get older, my overhead flexibility and stability is getting worse. Strict presses seem to sort this, even if they are relatively light. I certainly find that any wider grip bench leaves me with shoulder issues. | ||
| mikiesb | | ... | 28-09-2013 @ 20:44 |
Member 985, 26 posts | Post Edited: 28.09.2013 @ 20:50 PM by mikiesb Hi My bench has never been good vs my other strengths but my shoulder press (military press) has always been good for some reason i.m.o.. At one point I could probably shoulder press as much as I could bench and my bench is rubbish... My shoulder routine at my peak was at 95kgs bodyweight seated Military press - not push press or not smith machine - personal best 125kgs x 5 reps Hammer strength seated shoulder press (160kgs 4 x 20kgss up either side) x 12 reps (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ3TLhpLdkY - this is the piece of equipment - not me) Front delt raises Side delt raises Rear fly rear delts. I know people change their routine's etc. etc and we all have our strengths and weaknesses but this routine has served me well. I would alternate each week by standing military press out of a power rack and seated military press - push press i never do - don't see the point - if your training shoulders use them - don't cheat - u either press it out or not. I also never use smith machines as I believe it's cheating.. Hope your shoulders get stronger, and I always splitted chest/shoulders with a big rest gap between days. P.S someone mentioned traps training prior to my post - although i deadlift, my only other trap work is upright rows heavy = never liked shrugs for some reason .. | ||
| unit94 | | ... | 28-09-2013 @ 21:13 |
 what is everyone's fran time? Member 3986, 10452 posts SQ 340, BP 200, DL 400940.0 kgs @ 129kgs Eq | I think your missing something, the article is about improving performance in a sport. push press is used to lift more weight it's not cheating, you don't get points for strict pressing. Smith machine numbers aren't cheating their just irrelevant. mikiesb said:Hi My bench has never been good vs my other strengths but my shoulder press (military press) has always been good for some reason i.m.o.. At one point I could probably shoulder press as much as I could bench and my bench is rubbish... My shoulder routine at my peak was at 95kgs bodyweight seated Military press - not push press or not smith machine - personal best 125kgs x 5 reps Hammer strength seated shoulder press (160kgs 4 x 20kgss up either side) x 12 reps (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ3TLhpLdkY - this is the piece of equipment - not me) Front delt raises Side delt raises Rear fly rear delts. I know people change their routine's etc. etc and we all have our strengths and weaknesses but this routine has served me well. I would alternate each week by standing military press out of a power rack and seated military press - push press i never do - don't see the point - if your training shoulders use them - don't cheat - u either press it out or not. I also never use smith machines as I believe it's cheating.. Hope your shoulders get stronger, and I always splitted chest/shoulders with a big rest gap between days. P.S someone mentioned traps training prior to my post - although i deadlift, my only other trap work is upright rows heavy = never liked shrugs for some reason .. | ||
| mikiesb | | ... | 28-09-2013 @ 21:53 |
Member 985, 26 posts | Post Edited: 28.09.2013 @ 21:58 PM by mikiesb Point taken - in strong man u can push press..and you can hitch on the deadlift so long as it goes up... So yes understand push press will ultimately allow you to press more.. but i was just thinking about pure shoulder strength... The poster says they wear the same shoes they squat in - agree with that too. Zero cushioning shoes with good grip are good like astro turf trainers or wrestling boots. | ||
| Harry | | ... | 29-09-2013 @ 13:19 |
I have sex with women Member 2122, 310 posts SQ 180, BP 135, DL 220535.0 kgs @ 98kgs UnEq | Also a big tip for overhead pressers is to make sure that you have strong upper trapezius as this will help in stabilising your shoulder girdle I agree on this. Wide and close-grip trap pulls help develop these outside of the deadlift and so do the one-armed DB press. Having developed my OH pressing a bit, I have excluded push pressing techniques which in my mind cancel out the true benefit of OH development unless you are aiming for maximum weight. You'll find more often than not a man who can shift (for example) 100KG by pressing it is stronger at pressing from a dead stop than a man who can push press it for reps. I use fat gripz, fat bar and a thick handle on Dbs. I've noticed a good change over the past 4 months in my upper body area. | ||
© Sugden Barbell 2026 Privacy - Terms & Conditions