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| » Opinions on use of O-lifts for power (Go to post) | 04-04-2014 @ 00:19 | ||
adillon10 said:Who would jump higher then... a weightlifter or a powerlifter with equal relative squat strength? This question entirely misses the point. To be great at weightlifting you need to be naturally explosive, the kind of person who can jump! Weightlifting also has more participation & large scale state operated development provisions thanks to it being an olympic sport. So it generally has a pick of better naturally gifted athletes. So if we are talking about at the world class level, the weightlifter. But many powerlifters have no doubt got some springs on them too. Explosiveness is not make or break in powerlifting, but it certainly doesnt hurt. http://crossfitapx.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/drsquatverti... | |||
| » Mixing Bumpers and Cast Iron (Go to post) | 03-04-2014 @ 23:51 | ||
Post Edited: 03.04.2014 @ 23:52 PM by herman Terminator said: Like the above video but with 2 bumper plates face down on the floor in place of the wooden block at each end of the bar Oh right, I am familiar with block pulls but didn't think anyone would use iron on bumper plates as blocks  The plates would get dented for sure. Might even break. Depending on the shape of the iron plates. | |||
| » Mixing Bumpers and Cast Iron (Go to post) | 03-04-2014 @ 21:05 | ||
| I dont understand how the bumpers will be acting as a block? You just having them loaded on the bar like normal right? How does that raise the bar any higher? | |||
| » Opinions on use of O-lifts for power (Go to post) | 03-04-2014 @ 20:44 | ||
VanillaGorilla said:So much in this thread!  In a nutshell, the only people I coach who do a lot of WL are WLers. All my athletes do a mix of things that are specific to their sport, their individual strengths and weaknesses and contact time available. Generally this will involve learning and improving the ability to manipulate their bodies and movement patterns, rather than implements.Most of my athletes are pitch or court based so this is highly relevant, but many of them also benefit from improvements gleaned from the heavier work. ME GUSTA  | |||
| » Opinions on use of O-lifts for power (Go to post) | 03-04-2014 @ 20:42 | ||
adillon10 said: Watch a Weightlifter jump in celebration after they hit a massive number on the stage, they need extra roof space. PowerFUL!! Can they jump high because they do olympic lifts, or do they olympic lift because they can jump high? Your view is a popular one and is the reason why a lot of people do olympic lifts in an attempt to improve their jumps. There is usually two outcomes, it doesnt work and trainee eventually gives up or they fall in love with weightlifting and do that instead. Norik Vardanian & Clarence Kennedy both did this. Both were good at jumping in the first place. People also mostly overlook that weightlifters spend a lot of time doing strength work. The jumps wont improve greatly over whatever comes naturally, but the strength work and any jump practice is what may drive increases. * again just my opinion | |||
| » Opinions on use of O-lifts for power (Go to post) | 03-04-2014 @ 20:29 | ||
| Thanks for putting in a great response Marc (and everyone). I agree with a bunch of stuff, but disagree with some and will be stating my doubts & ideas. Just want to make it clear that I dont want this to be an argumentative b**ch fest. My intention was for everyone to hear each others opinions & experiences so we can all learn a bit from each other. And it is going very well! IrishMarc said:Strength lifts are too slow to develop your power they do however develop your ceiling for power. I think you are massively underplaying this "ceiling for power" thing. Strength is the ability to generate force, power is just the ability to deliver it fast and efficiently, providing that the athlete is technically proficient at the task at hand strength gains will flow straight into power gains up until the athlete approaches the higher end of their strength potential, where strength training will become too demanding to spur progress and gains diminish. If someone gets stronger doing 'slow lifts' with heavy weights, their ability to demonstrate this power by lifting moderate weights quickly will continue improve proportionately. But someone focuses on lifting moderate weights quickly, their quick lifts will not progress and neither will their ability to handle heavier weights. If they had any slow lift gains from previous training, these would actually go DOWN with neglect and then the ability in quick lifts will go down too! Lets consider deadlifts & dynamic effort deadlifts so technique distraction of o-lifts is not an issue. Get a bigger deadlift = Automatic DE deadlift improvement without training it. Do DE deadlifts = Achieve nothing / regress Do DE deadlifts & Heavy Deadlifts. = it will act as active recovery and [italic]maybe[/italic] provide a honing effect to strength delivery, by nervous system stimulation and trying to recruit more muscle fibres even the weight it too light! Lets imagine DE deadlifting was a competitive sport, how much time would a DE powerlifter dedicate to doing fast pulls? My opinion is that it would be minimal even though it was sports specific, as the limiting factor is so clearly max strength and they would require little to no practice/honing to deliver the strength in a DE deadlift. Then you increase your power clean from 110 to 140 and do jump training I guarantee you will jump higher. If you squat 200 then get your squat up to 250 with no cleans or jump training you will jump higher but not as much if you did programme a. I agree whole heartedly that jump training is one of the only ways a person has a hope of improving their jumps. Jumps rely on a natural explosivity and power to weight ratio that comes with genetics and varies a lot! There is little that anyone can do to improve. Some things that may help are strength (without detriment to PTW) and honing the SKILL of jumping, and application of your strength gains to that skill - ie jump training. I cannot believe that power clean increases would do anything for jumps unless they somehow corrected a movement flaw in the athlete, like poor hip extension. But then, most people rely on a very generous thigh bump in power cleans, even top weightlifters. This is an attribute that dominates the final and "most explosive" part of the pull and has absolutely nothing to do with jumping. Maybe snatches would better but it seems like an awfully complicated way to correct a hip extension flaw in jumping. Power and speed need to be trained at higher velocities. Like I have described, I disagree. But in a sport requiring an explosive, powerful movement then practising that movement or explosive accessory work based on the sport movement, will help you to apply your strength gains efficiently to the sport movement. Where the movements required in the sport are complicated, (and most real sports are!) it requires continuous rigourous training of the sport which reduces time & recovery available for extra gym s**t. As the sport is explosive in nature, your high velocity, explosive component is generally covered. The limited gym time should be used for strength work, and things like sports specific power exercises or corrective work, based on the athlete & sport. Is it something 'necessary' that will both benefit the sport and not being covered by practising the sport? Power clean and snatch aren't the only ways of developing it. Jump training, weighted throws, sled sprints, push presses etc can be used as well but the clean and snatch give you a lot of benefit and they aren't really that hard to learn. I agree that the variety of stuff you can do is overlooked, there are endless novel ways you can train the explosive elements of a variety of sports. But I believe it needs to be very purposeful, to teach your body to explosively execute the movement required in your sport - any explosive exercise needs to mirror it and not have too much superfluous demands either. | |||
| » Opinions on use of O-lifts for power (Go to post) | 03-04-2014 @ 15:35 | ||
| Thought I'd start a discussion to get peoples opinions. Snatches & Cleans are almost universally accepted in S&C circles as a method of developing 'power' in ALL athletes. To the extent that you will see coaches forcing athletes to do them, and rather risky stuff like jump squats before athletes can even do a regular front or back squat with good technique. I maybe be wrong here, and would love to hear some other experiences/conflicting opinions. But I do not believe you can develop "power" by doing the 'quick lifts'. The thing that increases power is simply getting stronger, lifting heavy weights in the big 'slow lifts' . 'Power' exercises should be sports specific, and help to apply the strength you have gained in slow lifts efficiently and develop good movement patterns for your sport. In most cases just doing the sport is enough and optimal. Where there are weak links which have scope for improvement, like starts in sprinting - then that can be trained on its own. To hone delivery of strength etc. Sports like shorter distance running, track cycling, long/high jump, boxing and ball sports are thought of as sports benefiting from power & explosivity. So are prime targets for S&C folk to be hammering into doing cleans etc... but do I think that they get any benefit out of it? I cannot see it. They instead engage in a high skill activity which takes time to learn, when done wrong achieves nothing (not even developing weightlifting skills) and has high risk of injury. Power snatches & power cleans would of course have relevance to weightlifting, but as lifters are already doing snatches and cleans it would be upto them if they think that is a weakness they need to work on, if they are already great at getting under the bar and want to get the bar higher etc.. developing skill & delivery of "strength" which is indeed the same thing as "power" but without the strength there in the first place from squats & pulls where does that "power" come from? Thoughts? | |||
| » Post arthroscopy - how much time off? (Go to post) | 30-03-2014 @ 14:13 | ||
| what was this hip or knee? What did they do, just have a look or ligament repair etc? I know with chondral microfracture its 6 weeks of zero weight bearing. Something Im going to have done this year for my f**ked up hip. | |||
| » rate for 2nd hand one inch plates (Go to post) | 30-03-2014 @ 14:11 | ||
| Check out ex-catalogue shops, they usually have some that are returns from places like argos. I know the majority will be those plastic sand filled sort, but they also stock those york metal ones from those dumb bell/bar sets they sell in argos. I purchased 40kg of brand new inch plates for about £35, in fact I think I may have got a inch bar too. | |||
| » random disclosure thread (Go to post) | 28-03-2014 @ 02:00 | ||
| Once when I was in italy I popped into a bar/restaurant to use the loo's for a poo. There was only writing on the signs and after some headscratching I ended up going into the womens by mistake. But it was empty and I just went into the cubicle quick cos I was desperate. But then I hear some young women come in, in a typical pair. Having conversations by the sink and doing make up etc for what was like an hour. Theres me desperately waiting for them to leave. There is actually people outside waiting for me in a car ffs! so in the end I just burst out, stomped to the door yelling Im sorry in Italian. God knows what they thought. | |||
| » How much protein? (Go to post) | 26-03-2014 @ 22:21 | ||
| So Im following you on FB now Luke, cant spot the article though... | |||
| » HGH for weight loss?? (Go to post) | 25-03-2014 @ 23:40 | ||
| I find with a lot of women (and some men too) who really really want to get in shape and have tried everything but failed.... is that they do not actually know what they want. If its simply being skinny, thats dead easy. Just eat less, dont even need to exercise or eat healthy food. Just less calories and be consistent. Sometimes they really want a bodyshape with is just not possible with their own body, for example she is quite short and maybe imagining some tall leggy supermodel figure etc.. If she is curvy with some thick legs on her, you have to make her love that and see it as a plus. From my limited knowledge of steroids HGH is both anabolic and helps maintain muscle mass while losing weight. If she has big chunky thighs n arse, it maybe muscle thats making them chunky. To get them thin like a anorexic fashion model she should be aiming to LOSE muscle mass lol. If she is aiming to look athletic, like some kind of physique model. Maybe she should take it. But only after doing what she can naturally to both build muscle and lean out. Plus she has to understand health consequences and be ok with the very high cost too. | |||
| » How much beef can I eat? (Go to post) | 22-03-2014 @ 23:42 | ||
Post Edited: 22.03.2014 @ 23:42 PM by herman You can get massive discounts for bulk buy meat, particularly with mutton by buying whole sheep.If you like venison you could also go hunting, pay someone to prepare it for you and stick it in the freezer. | |||
| » Would you want to be as big as big heath? (Go to post) | 22-03-2014 @ 23:22 | ||
| Id way prefer to be incomprehensibly strong and not even look like I lift, like Hysen Pulaku. | |||
| » zydrunas press (Go to post) | 22-03-2014 @ 18:36 | ||
EllD90 said:Would I be right in thinking a BHN press will put less stress on the lower back, as you're not really aiming to get your head through. Leaning back isn't really going to achieve anything? It's a lot harder to cheat a BHN press. Just trying to think outside the box as I need to ease off anything atm, that might stress my lower back. With BNP you are taking a lot of muscle mass out of the equation. Probably only a good idea if you bench etc in addition. The leaning back thing is pretty simple, just forceably keep yourself upright, it will make things harder and weights will be lighter but you can keep yourself upright if you really try. Thing is though, if you are training for the sake of log press, you are going to have to lean back a lot for optimal log technique, so perhaps best to train it to get used to it? Training without backwards lean, then suddenly trying to log press is more likely to snap your s**t up. You should also probably do ab work. | |||