dumbell v's barbell rows
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| littlegirlbunny |  | dumbell v's barbell rows | 02-11-2006 @ 08:27 |
 MIA Member 7, 621 posts SQ 80, BP 45, DL 125250.0 kgs @ 55kgs UnEq | Bit of a discussion about this in a log on veganfitness.net at the moment. I'm thinking of moving over to dumbell rows (and seated), mainly because I dont ever feel like I get the right form on barbell rows and I don't enjoy them. However, not everyone seems to agree it would be a good idea. What do you all think? (if you want to look at the original thread its here: http://www.veganfitness.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1514&sta... | ||
| Joni | | ... | 02-11-2006 @ 09:08 |
 left the country satisfied Member 10, 19241 posts SQ 240, BP 150, DL 270660.0 kgs @ 107kgs UnEq | i dont think it makes such a big f**king difference that it would be worth sweating over  Both are awesome. Barbell rows imitate the antagonist bench movement better, so suit better as an assistance, but if we had dumbells heavy enough at sugden i would do dumbell rows as well. They used to be one of my favourite exercises until i ran out of weights  | ||
| Cuddles | | ... | 02-11-2006 @ 14:26 |
 Eat.Cycle.Sleep.Win Member 2, 12511 posts SQ 190, BP 150, DL 280620.0 kgs @ 99kgs UnEq Administrator | Personally ive never enjoyed dumbell rows, but people seem to and get good results with them too. Just not one for me. | ||
| Adam | | ... | 02-11-2006 @ 15:34 |
Gone squatting Member 12, 386 posts SQ 250, BP 155, DL 260665.0 kgs @ 90kgs UnEq | I think because you are fairly new to powerlifting you should try a variety of different exercises and see what works best for you. I'm not saying you should try bent over lateral raise or some other nancy-boy exercise like that, stick to the basics like DB rows, t-bar rows, seated rows etc. Maybe try a 6 - 8 week cycle with DB rows as your main lat exercise, then in the following cycle try a different exercise. You may notice a differnce you may not, the same exercise works better for some than it does for others. Also, when you are designing a new program you have to take into consideration your own strengths/weaknesses. Its no point designing a routine that might look s**t hot on paper but doesn't necessarily address any weakness in your own training. For example a lack of form/speed work on bench, squats etc. With assistance work you should also think about areas that are prone to injury, in your case your lower back. There is no point risking an injury if you could have done another exercise that is "safer" but still a useful assistance exercise. | ||
| littlegirlbunny | | ... | 04-11-2006 @ 12:26 |
MIA Member 7, 621 posts SQ 80, BP 45, DL 125250.0 kgs @ 55kgs UnEq | Ok, thanks for the input Think im going to go with dumbell rows for a bit and then switch again in 6 weeks or so. | ||
| Cuddles | | ... | 04-11-2006 @ 16:51 |
Eat.Cycle.Sleep.Win Member 2, 12511 posts SQ 190, BP 150, DL 280620.0 kgs @ 99kgs UnEq Administrator | How much lat work do you do in a week Joe? As a side note, my bench is always at its strongest when my lats are strong, and ive noticed a definite corralation between doing heavy rows and bench strength. A lot of people on a lot of boards I follow have said the same. | ||
| littlegirlbunny | | ... | 05-11-2006 @ 20:53 |
MIA Member 7, 621 posts SQ 80, BP 45, DL 125250.0 kgs @ 55kgs UnEq | Usually only 1 full session a week. Anymore than that and I get problems with my back because I can't get enough recovery from deadlifting. Thats usually widegrip pulls, rows of some sort and chins. | ||
| Cuddles | | ... | 06-11-2006 @ 17:41 |
Eat.Cycle.Sleep.Win Member 2, 12511 posts SQ 190, BP 150, DL 280620.0 kgs @ 99kgs UnEq Administrator | Do you think that's enough lat work? If it were me, id want to be doing quite a bit more than that. Things like chins, seated rows, lat shrugs and pulldowns shouldnt negatively effect your deadlifting, and none of them are particularly taxing on the lower back. Keep your pulling/pressing balanced or slightly in favour of pulling will do good things for your shoulders in the long term. | ||
| Rick | | ... | 06-11-2006 @ 18:56 |
 I am a bench-only guy Member 3, 10034 posts SQ 185, BP 175, DL 235595.0 kgs @ 140kgs UnEq Administrator | Olly, how do you split up your lat work - is there a plan or do you do as you feel? When I get back to regular training after this month, I think there is going to be a lot more lat work - every session. I used to be stronger pulling than pushing, and that's certainly not true now. | ||
| littlegirlbunny | | ... | 07-11-2006 @ 11:39 |
MIA Member 7, 621 posts SQ 80, BP 45, DL 125250.0 kgs @ 55kgs UnEq | Lat work most definately does affect my deadlifting, and most of my back pain seems to be associated with spasming lats (according to the back woman that i went to see). It gets much worse if i dont give them adequate recovery time. Additionally, I get alot of forarm pain if I pull too much. I do agree that I would be better off if i could pull more often, but I just dont know how to get to do it without injury problems | ||
| Cuddles | | ... | 07-11-2006 @ 14:40 |
Eat.Cycle.Sleep.Win Member 2, 12511 posts SQ 190, BP 150, DL 280620.0 kgs @ 99kgs UnEq Administrator | How about things that are done light like pull aparts (with bands), face pulls and rear delt flies, these are the kind of things that promote good shoulder posture but are very easy to recover from as you are never going that heavy. They sre also a lot less lat dependent. And I hadnt realised that it was your lats causing your back problems, I thought it was a lower back issue rather than a mid/upper back problem. | ||
| Cuddles | | ... | 07-11-2006 @ 14:45 |
Eat.Cycle.Sleep.Win Member 2, 12511 posts SQ 190, BP 150, DL 280620.0 kgs @ 99kgs UnEq Administrator | Rick, there isnt really a plan for lat work, its more a case of trying to get in the required volume over a given period of time (tends to be a week for me) without affecting my other lifts. I'll do lat work most sessions, the only session where I actively take it easy is Tuesday, and thats because I deadlift haevy on Wednesdays. That means that Tuesday is either chin ups or nothing. Exercises I like and rotate into my routine: Machine Rows Barbell Rows Wide Grip Chins Curl Grip Pulldowns Lat Shrugs Face Pulls Rear Delt Flies I tend to do 2 of the above most sessions, and normally will go heavier on the first one and do volume with the second (normally the same weight for each set). As an example, on Friday I did curl grip pulldowns upto a top set of 5, followed with a back off set, and then did 3-4 sets of lat shrugs with the stack on the seated row. Thats pretty much the pattern. | ||
| littlegirlbunny | | ... | 07-11-2006 @ 19:06 |
MIA Member 7, 621 posts SQ 80, BP 45, DL 125250.0 kgs @ 55kgs UnEq | Originally posted by Olly... How about things that are done light like pull aparts (with bands), face pulls and rear delt flies, these are the kind of things that promote good shoulder posture but are very easy to recover from as you are never going that heavy. They sre also a lot less lat dependent. And I hadnt realised that it was your lats causing your back problems, I thought it was a lower back issue rather than a mid/upper back problem. Did some rear delt flys tonight (on the machine though, not with dumbells, I can never get the technique right). Pull aparts would be a good idea (i'll sort some bands). I have no idea what face pulls are though! Yeah, the back thing is complicated - but it has been improving recently (maybe because i have cut down the lat work???) | ||
| Cuddles | | ... | 12-11-2006 @ 22:28 |
Eat.Cycle.Sleep.Win Member 2, 12511 posts SQ 190, BP 150, DL 280620.0 kgs @ 99kgs UnEq Administrator | Face pulls are like rows, but you pull the bar towards your face, works the rear delts really hard, and theyre pretty handy for shoulder health/posture. I sometimes do them on the cable machine in Sugden, sat on the floor, with the pulley set so that when I pull to my eyes, the cable is parallel to the floor. High reps tend to be best. Your back may well be getting better from reducing the lat work (at least its getting better!!), but i'd suggest that meant you were doing something wrong with the lat work you were doing, rather than a purely volume thing. | ||
| Cuddles | | ... | 12-11-2006 @ 22:30 |
Eat.Cycle.Sleep.Win Member 2, 12511 posts SQ 190, BP 150, DL 280620.0 kgs @ 99kgs UnEq Administrator | Oh, and for rear delt flies, I much prefer the machine. If I do them, theyre always one of the last things I do, and my back/body is far too tired for me to trust myself to not injure it. | ||