front squat foot positioning

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Joni		front squat foot positioning	14-01-2007 @ 17:45
left the country satisfied Member 10, 19241 posts SQ 240, BP 150, DL 270 660.0 kgs @ 107kgs UnEq	any opinions about the width of the front squat foot positioning? Currently i am doing them narrow stance, the deadlifting stance because thats the main purpose of the lift at the moment: assistance for deads. But what would a purpose of a wide stance front squats be? Would that hit your legs any different from back squats?

littlegirlbunny		...	14-01-2007 @ 18:18
MIA Member 7, 621 posts SQ 80, BP 45, DL 125 250.0 kgs @ 55kgs UnEq	Good question Guess a wider stance will help prevent hip-tuck, which is good for people with crap backs like me. But would be good to know whether there is any benefit of doing wide-stance front as well as back squats. Front squats seem to target my core more than back squats, guess that wouldn't be so affected by stance??

mike_martin		...	14-01-2007 @ 19:15
Member 14, 79 posts SQ 200, BP 150, DL 250 600.0 kgs @ 128kgs UnEq	I front squat the same as my deadliftand back squat. I messed up my hip doing regular 'powerlifter' squats (note i know they arent to be blamed im a lazy bas***d who doesnt stretch enough), so took the stance in. In fact i think its narrow even for olympic squats, which i do(or try to ) 99% of the time. Wide stance fronts, hmm could be good alternative. I just simply dont know, again flexibility would probably be a hinderance for a while. I've never even thought of them. Dan John says he has his students do paused front squats, meant to be excellent for sporting performance. They are humbling, but i they definatly help the initial drive of the floor for deadlifts.

Rob		...	16-01-2007 @ 13:01
Does f*ck all for SugdenBarbell.co.uk Member 1, 7173 posts SQ 182.5, BP 110, DL 205 497.5 kgs @ 107kgs UnEq Administrator	Personally I would just opt to use whatever stance allows you to front squat the most weight - that would probably be more effective for DL assistance than using the same foot positioning which may reduce how much you can lift.

Fazc		...	19-01-2007 @ 00:54
Sports an extremely muscular arse. Member 38, 6253 posts	Post Edited: 19.01.2007 @ 00:55 AM I used to do them as heavy as I could manage, with the same foot stance as my back squats. Which is very wide. I was doing them for extra quad work to help my Squat. Unfortunately, they didnt really help as much. I got much more quad stimulation from Leg Presses and consequently they were a much better assistance for my Squat. Looking back, I suspect if I has performed the Front Squat with a narrower stance, it may have limited how much I lift, but would probably have benefited my Squat much more so.

Cuddles		...	19-01-2007 @ 09:28
Eat.Cycle.Sleep.Win Member 2, 12511 posts SQ 190, BP 150, DL 280 620.0 kgs @ 99kgs UnEq Administrator	Use the stance that allows you to use the best form IMO. I wouldnt be going too wide though.

Joni		...	19-01-2007 @ 09:36
left the country satisfied Member 10, 19241 posts SQ 240, BP 150, DL 270 660.0 kgs @ 107kgs UnEq	bit of conflicting stuff, i guess i should try out both. Going heavier appeals for obvious reasons, and i would like to nail 140kg front squat soonish, so i might just take the most comfortable position in order to get it. but as a quad exercise i think narrow stance works better.


Cuddles		...	19-01-2007 @ 10:59
Eat.Cycle.Sleep.Win Member 2, 12511 posts SQ 190, BP 150, DL 280 620.0 kgs @ 99kgs UnEq Administrator	The more I think of it, I have no idea why you would go wider than you need to on front squats. They're for strength in your quads. The experts, ie those that are best at them, seem to all use a fairly narrow stance (judging by pretty much every oly lifter ive ever seen). I wouldnt worry too much about using your deadlift stance though. Build the strength with the front squats, and then tranfer it to your deadlift with platform pulls.

Cuddles		...	19-01-2007 @ 11:00
Eat.Cycle.Sleep.Win Member 2, 12511 posts SQ 190, BP 150, DL 280 620.0 kgs @ 99kgs UnEq Administrator	Plus they are very good for other movements too, ie jerks, push press, truck pull etc etc, I doubt you'll be going wide stance on any of those any time soon.

Joni		...	19-01-2007 @ 11:01
left the country satisfied Member 10, 19241 posts SQ 240, BP 150, DL 270 660.0 kgs @ 107kgs UnEq	yeah i'll give a try this sunday with a narrow, but slightly wider than deadlift stance. I want to hit the quads, but i also want to be able to reach the depth easier and pile on some weight on the f**king bar. Cant wait till sunday!

mishima		...	21-01-2007 @ 15:28
pink french superstar beard Member 26, 4030 posts SQ 190, BP 0, DL 205 395.0 kgs @ 75kgs UnEq	I'm small (5ft5), and use a narrow stance on all my squats, cleans and snatches. A wider stance wouldnt help since it affects my flexibility. I reckon bigger guys would go wider than that but still narrow enough to hit some depth.

Fazc		...	22-01-2007 @ 00:27
Sports an extremely muscular arse. Member 38, 6253 posts	Hello again, There's a field of study called Bio-Kinetics, it looks at the most efficient methods of movement for the body. For example if we were to throw a rugby ball, what would be the bodies most efficient path. It's known that the body will generally take it's strongets path to accomplish what its trying to do. The body's quite efficient like that, and doesn't like to waste energy on harder routes to the same goal. This has some application to weight-lifting as well. As we look at weak point training. In this discussion, since assistance exercises like the Front Squat are designed with a specific goal in mind, that is to build up weak areas, it really makes little sense to use your strongest stance. Kinda defeats the purpose of it. Use a stance which forces you into a weaker position, then make that a stronger position. Then you would have improved your weak point. This is what most good coaches/lifters have found out through experience, like Olly said. Faz

Rob		...	22-01-2007 @ 16:20
Does f*ck all for SugdenBarbell.co.uk Member 1, 7173 posts SQ 182.5, BP 110, DL 205 497.5 kgs @ 107kgs UnEq Administrator	I see where you are coming from Faz, but I really don't see that it's that applicable to the front squat. For example, the difference between a 'wide stance' and 'narrow stance' front squat really isn't that great (especially compared to the back squat equivalents). Thus one wonders how different it actually is on the different muscles given this. I can understand your logic perfectly in the instance of the bench press and the close grip bench press for example (i.e. bringing up your triceps if they are the weakness). One more point, is doing things like this sometimes a bit like telling Beckham to start practicing free kicks with his left foot?

Fazc		...	23-01-2007 @ 01:20
Sports an extremely muscular arse. Member 38, 6253 posts	Post Edited: 23.01.2007 @ 01:27 AM Originally posted by Rob... Thus one wonders how different it actually is on the different muscles given this. Perhaps, but that's not quite my point. As i've noted above my Front Squat did nothing for my regular Back Squat as the movement mechanics were too similar. You've seen my video's, I tend to use a lot of back and hams, I Front Squat in the same manner. This won't help me address strengthening my quads for the Back Squat. So, I abandoned it altogether and took the Leg press. However my point was that if someone was to do an assistance exercise, he would have to make the lift different enough to target the muscle intended. A close stance squat done Oly style, is literally miles away from my Back squat form and i'm sure might help me. You have to look at it in a more individual basis. Btw - Consider this also: My strongest bench grip is quite close, a close grip bench to strengthen my tri's would do very little for me. Again, individual basis. I can understand your logic perfectly in the instance of the bench press and the close grip bench press for example (i.e. bringing up your triceps if they are the weakness). Ok good, what we're saying isn't really that different. So, why is it that for the Bench/Close grip bench you can understand the logic. Yet for the Front Squat/Back Squat you can't. The exercise performance perhaps? Again, individual basis. Now extend that example above to encompass the fact that we're all very different and can have varying weak points and style's of exercise performance. Consider this example. Someone isn't getting the neccesary quad work from his back squats, he Squats wide and uses a lot of back. He needs extra quad work from assistance to aid his Squats and his Deadlifts. What possible alternatives would you recommend and why? One more point, is doing things like this sometimes a bit like telling Beckham to start practicing free kicks with his left foot? You've completely lost me there, mate.

Rob		...	23-01-2007 @ 13:08
Does f*ck all for SugdenBarbell.co.uk Member 1, 7173 posts SQ 182.5, BP 110, DL 205 497.5 kgs @ 107kgs UnEq Administrator	Post Edited: 23.01.2007 @ 13:10 PM I understand the relevance of the front squat as assistance to the back squat and DL; what I'm trying to point out is that I don't think the stance of it can vary that much to target different muscles significantly. I'm surprised that you actually can front squat like you back squat - I would expect you to just fall forwards if done the same way. Your back squat is almost like a good morning at points (please note I'm not saying there's anything wrong with this; your lifts at your BW speak for themselves). Certainly front squats, leg press and perhaps platform deadlifts would be my recommended exercises for brining up quad strength relative to the SQ and DL. You are of course right about it all being a very individual thing. As for the Beckham example, I was trying to suggest (not directly in relation to the exercises we are discussing) that sometimes we perhaps do assistance work that detracts from the point and will be useless all things said and done?

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