Squat alternatives
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| ranathari |  | Squat alternatives | 28-06-2010 @ 18:20 |
 sumo ?? no ! no ! Member 1399, 557 posts | I've stopped doing back and front squats for the time being because I can't stop my pelvis from tucking under once I get a few inches above parallel. While my lower back is always pain-free during squats, if I keep letting my pelvis rotate then I'll slip a disc in the future from the constant wear and tear. I have seriously tight hip flexors and extensors after a decade's worth of abuse during track and field, which I'm getting deep tissue work for at the moment and will hopefully let me return to proper squatting in a few months. In the meantime, what do you think would make a good squat alternative? So far I'm thinking Zercher squats because they'll unload my spine, letting me go heavy with less risk of hurting my back. Alternatively I could spring for a trap bar and do that - anyone have any opinions on how well trap bar deadlifts carry over to back squats? | ||
| Doc_D | | ... | 28-06-2010 @ 20:58 |
 please use accurate taxonomy in our communication Member 871, 469 posts SQ 240, BP 137.5, DL 262.5640.0 kgs @ 89kgs Eq | Depends what the desired result of your squatting is, but in terms of targeting the legs (broadly speaking), Zerchers would be a less than ideal alternative. Trap bar DL can work the legs (and particularly the quads) very hard, but judging by Internet vids, many people minimise this possibility through compromises in form for the sole purpose of lifting as much weight as possible. If you focus on keeping the back straight (crumpled core and rounded upper back being common form defects), you'll find that the quads and glutes get a pounding (and because of the deloading at the bottom and the nature of the eccentric, you'll probably get less DOMS than the feeling during training would suggest). You can always stand on a low platform to increase ROM, but esp. with your limitations, it's probably not necessary. The fact of being able to reset your hips and lower back without load at the bottom will also probably be very beneficial to resolving your issues. Done properly, the trap bar DL is more of a substitute for a back squat than for conventional BB DL - even without in any way trying to make it into a 'trap bar squat' (i.e. by keeping hips unnaturally low and torso unnaturally upright). This heavy loading could always be complemented with some 1-legged work - e.g. 1-leg squats standing on a high box, Bulgarian split squats, reverse lunges, etc. | ||
| ranathari | | ... | 29-06-2010 @ 21:14 |
sumo ?? no ! no ! Member 1399, 557 posts | I just squat to build strong legs, not to get better at squatting or anything else because I'm not a competitive lifter. I'll have a hunt around to see what kind of prices trap bars are going for and switch to that then. Thanks for the detailed thoughts! | ||
| brynevans | | ... | 29-06-2010 @ 23:10 |
 Scotbasher - forever Member 59, 2115 posts | What about doing hack squats on a machine? I found these very useful when I had a bad back injury. | ||
| ranathari | | ... | 30-06-2010 @ 07:45 |
sumo ?? no ! no ! Member 1399, 557 posts | Home gym, no access to machines. Barbell hack squats are out because my arse is too muscular (or at least that's what I tell myself!) and getting the bar around it at lock-out is a pain. | ||
| Joni | | ... | 30-06-2010 @ 08:00 |
 left the country satisfied Member 10, 19241 posts SQ 240, BP 150, DL 270660.0 kgs @ 107kgs UnEq | ranathari said:While my lower back is always pain-free during squats, if I keep letting my pelvis rotate then I'll slip a disc in the future from the constant wear and tear. mate, you should be applauded for being such a long term thinker. I wish more guys would realise this very same problem on deads and squats. Just watched some seminars by this back guru mcgill and he bangs on about this wear and tear damage from f**ked up form. Do you have a stretching regime for this too? What about having someone to really watch your squat form regarding foot/knee etc positioning and see if you can get it better that way too? i know nothing mate, but first thing that i would think for myself is squatting to the point before pelvis tilts. It might not be to depth, but it would still be squatting and keep the strength going. front squats might encourage more upright spine position and could get closer to parallel, who knows. single leg work is always hard, and some lunge etc bulls**t too. Good luck mate! | ||
| Thing | | ... | 30-06-2010 @ 08:06 |
 a large fingered spastic that demolishes plant Member 89, 31706 posts SQ 260, BP 220, DL 290770.0 kgs @ 142kgs UnEq | pistol squats, bulgarian squats and Body weight Long Paused Squats. throw in some sissy squats and sled drags for the legs | ||
| ranathari | | ... | 30-06-2010 @ 12:52 |
sumo ?? no ! no ! Member 1399, 557 posts | Post Edited: 30.06.2010 @ 12:54 PM by ranathari Joni said: mate, you should be applauded for being such a long term thinker. I wish more guys would realise this very same problem on deads and squats. Just watched some seminars by this back guru mcgill and he bangs on about this wear and tear damage from f**ked up form. Do you have a stretching regime for this too? What about having someone to really watch your squat form regarding foot/knee etc positioning and see if you can get it better that way too? i know nothing mate, but first thing that i would think for myself is squatting to the point before pelvis tilts. It might not be to depth, but it would still be squatting and keep the strength going. front squats might encourage more upright spine position and could get closer to parallel, who knows. single leg work is always hard, and some lunge etc bulls**t too. Good luck mate! Thanks for the compliment! Front squats share the same pelvic rotation problem as back squats so I can't use them as a direct substitute. I've played around with positioning and the only way to squat without my back rounding is to use an ultra-wide stance like the multiply squatters do from a monolift, which will just wreck my groin as a raw lifter in the long run. I train on my own so having someone call depth isn't really an option. I'm going to put off buying a trap bar until August because I'm revising for exams at the moment and it wouldn't get enough use. Currently I'm thinking about maybe using a video camera to work out my maximum safe depth and then tying a band across the rack to use as a marker. Then I can do above-parallel squats as my ME work for the time being and use single-leg work (lunges and Bulgarian SSs) like Thing, Doc_D and yourself suggested to batter my legs and make up for the reduced depth on squats. Currently I'm getting active release therapy for my hips, knees and ankles to reduce the tightness and following it up with hamstring, quad and glute stretches after every training session. I've tried daily stretching and foam rolling but I find stretching every other day to be easier to stick to mentally. | ||
| Doc_D | | ... | 30-06-2010 @ 13:15 |
please use accurate taxonomy in our communication Member 871, 469 posts SQ 240, BP 137.5, DL 262.5640.0 kgs @ 89kgs Eq | ranathari said: Currently I'm thinking about maybe using a video camera to work out my maximum safe depth and then tying a band across the rack to use as a marker. Not the best idea, as you'll find yourself focussing on the contact. It would be better to establish *by feeling* at what depth the problem occurs, and then to restrict yourself accordingly. If you really want a signal (and although I'm not their greatest fan), high/partial box squats (a.k.a. what most people call 'full' or 'parallel' box squats, to judge by the Internet!) would have the advantage of allowing you to control and check the depth, but also to make sure that your back is locked before you ascend. I'd prefer a pause squat to the appropriate depth, but many don't share my prejudice. BTW, some of the symptoms that you have described suggests that core strength might also be a good thing to improve. | ||
| JimXVX | | ... | 01-07-2010 @ 12:46 |
Member 1462, 15 posts | I'm in a similar position myself - basically I have a slight congenital hip issue that pulls my pelvis slightly out of alignment, which in turn affects my lower back. Not a problem in day to day life but any kind of spinal loading or even arching causes me serious trouble so I've customised my gym routine to work around the problem. Obviously any type of barbell squat is out of the question for me. Pistols squats are OK but my go-to leg exercise now is hip belt squats using this [url=]http://www.ironmind.com/ironmind/opencms/Main/homesweathome4.h... (which I got from Joni  ). What I do is use an 'EZ' bar (as a barbell can move around mid exercise) & stand on an aerobics step platform so that the plates don't hit the floor at the bottom of each rep. Quite difficult to get used to but works brilliantly with a bit of practice.Maybe this could work for you? | ||
| Ben_Tricky_Burgess | | ... | 01-07-2010 @ 13:53 |
Member 86, 297 posts | ranathari said:I've stopped doing back and front squats for the time being because I can't stop my pelvis from tucking under once I get a few inches above parallel. Stretch the s**t out of your piriformis every couple of hours. | ||
| ranathari | | ... | 01-07-2010 @ 16:32 |
sumo ?? no ! no ! Member 1399, 557 posts | Doc_D said: Not the best idea, as you'll find yourself focussing on the contact. It would be better to establish *by feeling* at what depth the problem occurs, and then to restrict yourself accordingly. If you really want a signal (and although I'm not their greatest fan), high/partial box squats (a.k.a. what most people call 'full' or 'parallel' box squats, to judge by the Internet!) would have the advantage of allowing you to control and check the depth, but also to make sure that your back is locked before you ascend. I'd prefer a pause squat to the appropriate depth, but many don't share my prejudice. BTW, some of the symptoms that you have described suggests that core strength might also be a good thing to improve. Already do tons of planks for core strength! I'll have a play around and see if I can make a box for the right height to try high box squats. JimXVX said:I'm in a similar position myself - basically I have a slight congenital hip issue that pulls my pelvis slightly out of alignment, which in turn affects my lower back. Not a problem in day to day life but any kind of spinal loading or even arching causes me serious trouble so I've customised my gym routine to work around the problem. Obviously any type of barbell squat is out of the question for me. Pistols squats are OK but my go-to leg exercise now is hip belt squats using this [url=]http://www.ironmind.com/ironmind/opencms/Main/homesweathome4.h... (which I got from Joni ). What I do is use an 'EZ' bar (as a barbell can move around mid exercise) & stand on an aerobics step platform so that the plates don't hit the floor at the bottom of each rep. Quite difficult to get used to but works brilliantly with a bit of practice.Maybe this could work for you? It's a nice idea and thanks for suggesting it but it's probably a bit too much to try and set up where I train. | ||
| Thing | | ... | 01-07-2010 @ 16:44 |
a large fingered spastic that demolishes plant Member 89, 31706 posts SQ 260, BP 220, DL 290770.0 kgs @ 142kgs UnEq | dude if you want a hip belt from iron mind you can buy mine off me as i don't really use it. | ||
| plonker | | ... | 01-07-2010 @ 16:56 |
The world famous projectile vomit master Member 1293, 443 posts SQ 210, BP 155, DL 280645.0 kgs @ 105kgs UnEq | elevate your heels... for both front and back squats... start off with higher reps for your knee joint to get used to them first... | ||
| Doc_D | | ... | 01-07-2010 @ 17:41 |
please use accurate taxonomy in our communication Member 871, 469 posts SQ 240, BP 137.5, DL 262.5640.0 kgs @ 89kgs Eq | ranathari said: Already do tons of planks for core strength! Not hard enough, in all honesty, unless you are doing them on an unstable surface with arms outstretched. When you can do standing ab roll-outs to full extension, I'll happily discount core strength as a possible issue - but the symptoms that you describe, while doubtless influenced by your mobility issues, will also be exacerbated by lacking core strength (and esp. the appearance of your problem on front squats arouses suspicions). | ||