Couple of questions about training DOH deadlifts

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JackRevans		Couple of questions about training DOH deadlifts	27-12-2016 @ 22:23
'There was also a sausage in my mouth.' Member 2477, 16481 posts SQ 190, BP 130, DL 235 555.0 kgs @ 83kgs UnEq	I did an entire training session of double overhand deadlifts today for perhaps the first time ever and made 2 observations. 1, I am extremely weak at double overhand deadlifts. Now I dont know my current mixed grip 1rm on an eleiko bar but I'm assuming it would be at least 220kg, and I rarely have any problems with grip but today I was struggling with 150kg. Is this normal? 2, Each rep felt a lot harder than it should have done. Not only in the hands/forearms but my entire body seemed to be struggling. Now this is presumably a compensatory method my body is using to make me lift it slower so I dont drop the bar. My (more important) question (than question number one) is, could it actually be harmful to train the double overhand deadlift? I have been lead to believe over the years that deadlift training should be very explosive and every rep should be pulled as fast as possible. According to this, deadlifting a relatively light weight slowly should be detrimental. Could anyone offer any insight?

matthewvc		...	27-12-2016 @ 22:30
‘downsizing’ Member 5704, 3221 posts SQ 280, BP 210, DL 320 810.0 kgs @ 96.3kgs UnEq	JackRevans said:I did an entire training session of double overhand deadlifts today for perhaps the first time ever and made 2 observations. 1, I am extremely weak at double overhand deadlifts. Now I dont know my current mixed grip 1rm on an eleiko bar but I'm assuming it would be at least 220kg, and I rarely have any problems with grip but today I was struggling with 150kg. Is this normal? 2, Each rep felt a lot harder than it should have done. Not only in the hands/forearms but my entire body seemed to be struggling. Now this is presumably a compensatory method my body is using to make me lift it slower so I dont drop the bar. My (more important) question (than question number one) is, could it actually be harmful to train the double overhand deadlift? I have been lead to believe over the years that deadlift training should be very explosive and every rep should be pulled as fast as possible. According to this, deadlifting a relatively light weight slowly should be detrimental. Could anyone offer any insight? 1. yes, it's a horrible grip if you aren't used to it. but practice and strength will improve quickly and it'll improve your main grip. 2. if grip is slipping everything else shuts down. it's why straps feel easier to most as the grip component is removed. as for main question - i wouldn't solely depend on them continue to train alongside mixed grip or hook (whatever your strong grip is).

ChrisMcCarthy		...	27-12-2016 @ 22:37
Lost his pen, then found his pen. #phew Member 4899, 2956 posts	Agree with Matt...as much as your doh deadlift should be higher than it is your deadlift should be more than you can hold onto doh.

IainKendrick		...	28-12-2016 @ 10:37
some nice relaxing jazz. Member 77, 12599 posts SQ 265, BP 165, DL 280 710.0 kgs @ 93kgs UnEq	As above. If you still want to train your deadlift and your DOH dead simply alot some time to the later while still focusing on the former.

PaulSavage		...	28-12-2016 @ 11:04
Member 2775, 6927 posts	If you are concerned about it being slow just do it to a weight you can pull fast overhand then change to mixed or straps and increase it little by little over time. You can also use overhand grip on assistance stuff or at least the warm ups / lighter sets. It doesn't need to negatively impact your deadlift workout at all.

hifilover		...	28-12-2016 @ 12:13
Member 3241, 2043 posts SQ 1, BP 192, DL 255 448.0 kgs @ 136kgs UnEq	To be blunt... Just train DOH and keep at it! That's all I did and rarely use alternate grip now. Plus, IMO, DOH on deads makes the pull and inch or 2 shorter as well... I've got good grip by normal standards I'd say; I pull 180kg'ish DOH on axle deads, but I've biggish hands an'all... But any other exercises I use grip for (pull-ups, low pulley rows, lat pulldowns and just generally picking weights/bars up etc, I just use my fingers and rarely my thumb and find this helps grip as well If you keep at it, I'd say you'll start to notice changes in your grip (for the better) within 3-4 weeks Doing holds on an axle really helps as well, as do timed-holds on a normal oly bar, just using a fingers-only grip!

Wayne_Cowdrey		...	28-12-2016 @ 20:52
Still got a little bit of strength Member 400, 22043 posts	Don't forget the extensors


matthewvc		...	29-12-2016 @ 22:18
‘downsizing’ Member 5704, 3221 posts SQ 280, BP 210, DL 320 810.0 kgs @ 96.3kgs UnEq	Wayne_Cowdrey said:Don't forget the extensors you may joke... but when i did my 250 DOHG i warmed my hands up (by rubbing them together) and stretched my extensors for a 10-15 seconds. this was because i vaguely remember an article i read from some grip guru about warm hands with antagonists stretched and warmed up would improve the crushing/supporting grip... 250 was easier than warmup beforehand

Wayne_Cowdrey		...	30-12-2016 @ 00:27
Still got a little bit of strength Member 400, 22043 posts	Interesting. If you ONLY trained extensors I wonder if your grip strength would improve a bit.

JackRevans		...	30-12-2016 @ 07:17
'There was also a sausage in my mouth.' Member 2477, 16481 posts SQ 190, BP 130, DL 235 555.0 kgs @ 83kgs UnEq	Hmm, when I deadlifted 280kg with hook grip (seemingly out of the blue), it was not long after I had started training finger extensors. Anyway thanks for all the useful replies everyone. I wil certainly continue with the DOH for the time being. I think it should improve pretty quickly anyway. I might actually warm up for drumming today with soke fonger extensions

ChrisMcCarthy		...	30-12-2016 @ 08:10
Lost his pen, then found his pen. #phew Member 4899, 2956 posts	Extensors are definitely an important part of a strong grip.

matthewvc		...	30-12-2016 @ 08:55
‘downsizing’ Member 5704, 3221 posts SQ 280, BP 210, DL 320 810.0 kgs @ 96.3kgs UnEq	Wayne_Cowdrey said:Interesting. If you ONLY trained extensors I wonder if your grip strength would improve a bit. no definitely not!

Wayne_Cowdrey		...	30-12-2016 @ 15:33
Still got a little bit of strength Member 400, 22043 posts	matthewvc said: no definitely not! I'm not so sure....

mark_f1		...	30-12-2016 @ 15:54
not actually strong Member 5779, 811 posts SQ 220, BP 150, DL 285 655.0 kgs @ 105kgs Eq	My best doh was 220 when i did 250 mixed (texas bar) I very rarely use straps as i cant get on with them, and i always doh warming up. I wouldn't worry about it. People with big skinny hands are always going to have an advantage.

PeteHodgson		...	30-12-2016 @ 16:39
Has little understanding of the sugden Member 677, 11338 posts SQ 165, BP 125, DL 220 510.0 kgs @ 80kgs UnEq	When I trained ONLY extensors for a month my deadlift had gone up 20kg when I next tried. Interestingly so had my squat. And my tricep kickback. And my body weight. And my bank balance.

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