Are we ruining our sport in trying to get too many people involved??

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Pint		...	13-06-2011 @ 14:53
Member 424, 532 posts SQ 190, BP 145, DL 220 555.0 kgs @ 103kgs UnEq	ministry said:In my opinion and whether you agree or not I am entitled to it and its what these forums are for; I feel we have diluted strongman too much in this country. Strongmen used to be freakishly big guys with freakish strength. Now everyone is a strongman, bit like everyone is a cagefighter!!! I understand that seeing someone do the stones or farmers in the gym may appeal and is a change from the sometimes mundane gym training, however too many people are jumping on the bandwagon. Gyms are holding strongman events with weights that most people can do. This is not strongman its a way of making money and we are losing sight of the heritage of strongman. In recent months I have seen intermediate or light heavy strongman comps. What is this??? A bit strong but not strong enough to compete with the strong guys so we will put on a comp especially for those who are not quite as strong. We have become caught up in the political correctness of not being able to say " Do you know what, you cant be a strongman because actually you are not strong enough" What we will do is make the comps so you can do them and allow you to compete so you can call yourself a strongman. There is a difference between being strong for your size/weight and being a true strongman competitor. If a 25 stone man wanted to be a jockey he would be told there absolutely no way. So why cant people accept that strongman is a sport for big, strong men and respect that, and allow that to continue. To dilute it and with everyone saying they are "strongmen" is an insult to our ancestors and those in the sport who really are strongmen in the true nature of the sport. Its not about winning loads of local novice comps, its about being strong, starting at the bottom, doing your apprenticeship and working your way up, gaining experience so that when the day comes that you are a champion, you are a truly respected champion of a truly respected sport. Discuss This was the original post. Ministry appears to have moved away from this very clear expression that "strongman is diluted", that it is a sport only for "big,strong men" and that the current variations in competition are an "insult" - he appears to have moved on, through his later statements,to tell us that, in face, he endorses the involvment of the various levels of competition in strongman - even going so far as to tell us that he supports Novices competitions and welcomes all weights/abilities in competing at his facility. I am not sure why there is such a turn around? because your point, Ministry, now appears to no longer be "your not big/strong enough - find another sport" as it appeared to be to begin with, but instead that you are suggesting you were trying to question the need for nationalised standards because of a few poorly run "local" competitions...? Anyway, in answer to the question of involving those other than the superhuman monsters of WSM - it is a fact, of course, that men are not created equal. Some, like me, will never compete at WSM. I think this has a lot more to do with my choice not to use steroids than anything else - but thats a different debate. I compete in strongman - I am proud to associate myself with the sport, when people ask me if I play rugby (and people often do) I say "no, I compete in amateur strongman". Its always a great discussion and I always explain that there are lots of different classes and also that there are natural as well as untested competitions. People always seem to be a bit let down to find out that WSM is so rife with performance enhancing drugs - the general response is that "thats not really a test of strength then is it?" (IMO- I love WSM, always have, but you cant deny what the public say, can you?). My little boy plays rugby. I tell everyone he's a Rugby player, because he is! He is no more defined by Rugby than I am by strongman. But we are both proud and enthusiastic about the sports we enjoy. Am I less "a strongman" because I wont take the drugs needed to get to the top? I certainly dont think so, and now as I see the younger lads in the gyms I go to, full up with gear by the end of their first year of training, I think the lads who do the best with what God gave them are far stronger and the competition between them is more pure. Thats a bit off point I suppose - So, as far as the initial question..? More people competing and training means that strongman will be boosted in my opinion!! Why is the world cup always so full of spectators, why do they earn such money...? Because every little boy plays football, every school has a team. If more youngsters learned about weightlifting, strongman, oly lifting, powerlifting would we not just see an increase across the board in the money, profile and practice of this sport. A basic standard of weights, events etc would be great - but I thought we had a general (and I know that it is only general) rule of that kind of thing. Most people on Sugden will comment "that log is more like a novice weight than an intermediate" or "that deadlift is too heavy for an intermediate comp". Likewise, everyone will think you are a wa**er if you come in the top three and dont move up a level. Good debate..! More people + more pride = better standards all round. I was just wondering if its prejudiced to suggest that only the biggest should be allowed to do this sport - imagine, telling the under 105's or under 90's that they cant join in because they are too small/weak (!!!). But then I thought, what a crap sport it would be if only 20 or 30 guys in the whole country could/would do it, the standard would be rubbish because there would be nothing to compare it to (like 20 years ago..!). It is the increase in interest and practice that has forced the standard up. Final point - Evolution of a species happens over thousands of years. Humans have not "evolved" stronger since the 1980's. (some slight average height increase in the past 300 years is the only definable change from a species perspective) PINT

JC		...	13-06-2011 @ 15:21
technical retard Member 172, 36827 posts SQ 310, BP 205, DL 335 850.0 kgs @ 108kgs UnEq	terryhollands said:Had a long think about this and my opinion is, lot's of comps is not a bad thing and opening it up to all of all weight/ability ranges is showing the sport has some interest. To be honest I personally think that badly run, badly refereed and poor events are the biggest problem within the sport! I go to numerous comps of all levels and think that so long as they are of a good standard for the crowds then it is only a positive thing. When You turn up to some comps and they look poor then it is hard to generate interest in the sport from sponsors and the general public. I feel these are much more detrimental to our sport than weight classes and level comps (novice and intermediate) Just my 2 cents. This bit confuses me! You've played rugby right Terry, at a lower than elite level I presume? Does rugby struggle to attract sponsorship etc The biggest grossing sport for sponsorship throughout the world, has low level ability participation, played on s**t hole pitches, with diabolical refereeing, but that doesnt effect their sponsorship?

ministry		...	14-06-2011 @ 18:00
Member 2357, 39 posts	This was a discussion that has taken place on numerous occasions within our gym and there are indeed many factors that contribute to the sport of strongman. I am not so narrow minded that I cannot listen to and sometimes accept other peoples views. There are many people involved in strongman. Those who are huge and compete at top level, those who train and work hard and compete just to be the best they can, those who started off in a smaller class and intend to work their way up, those who enjoy being in the smaller class, those who just do it for fun and many more. I would like to see the sport progress and if you had read all the posts you will have read that I made an error. Its great we have people involved howvere I do believe that for the good of the sport it does need some standardisation of comps, weights and classes. I am adult enough to accept others opinion and really dont see how being permanenetl personal and critical achieves anything or is helpful in any way. People should really keep their personal agendas off of forums

PAGAN		...	14-06-2011 @ 18:39
I took about £4 out of Sooty's bottom Member 685, 8719 posts SQ 225, BP 150, DL 290 665.0 kgs @ 93kgs UnEq	I dont have problem with you expressing your opinion at all mate. If I'm honest my gut reaction is that you are trying to restart a debate on wether we should have a governing body in the sport.If this is not the case then I apologise but if it is then IMO when people push for something it's normally because they have a vested interest. Again sorry if I'm barking up the wrong tree. Me? I'm just enjoying training and competing at whatever level I can.The fact that I can now enjoy both these things with my teenage son has been a real plus for me and I cant fathom how this could possibly be seen as negative for the sport in anyway

elitestrongman		...	14-06-2011 @ 18:52
thats the way I do it, don't like it not my prob Member 253, 1225 posts SQ 267.5, BP 180, DL 225 672.5 kgs @ 118kgs Eq	This is too hot for me? I'll just keep putting on shows, finding sponsors and funds to run these events is getting harder not because of all the comps that are on, its just the lack of money these days?


rudigan		...	15-06-2011 @ 15:21
Member 1625, 26 posts	Did you think of the forefathers ministry when you put on that charity comp a few years ago and you let people do it in fancy dress.

carlsberg		strongman	16-06-2011 @ 10:22
Member 1067, 9 posts	Post Edited: 16.06.2011 @ 10:24 AM by carlsberg I do think that more competitions may bring to the fold more people who may not have been otherwise involved in strongman. Coming from an athletics background its a dream being infront of hundreds of people screaming for you to lift,drag or pull something.

DJActon01		...	16-06-2011 @ 13:15
Member 2106, 4 posts SQ 290, BP 260, DL 300 850.0 kgs @ 118kgs Eq	I thinks its great that there are more people showing an interest and competing. For me, when people ask what I train for, and I say I lift weights, and wanna do strongman, I find I have to justify what I do and why I do it. The more people that show an interest and compete, the better, I dont have to justify what I do as much, as they have a greater understanding of the sport. Aswell, I am due to do my first comp soon, BECAUSE of these "lower level" comps that are being put on. So i think its a good thing that more and more people are making the effort for the sport. I dont always like strongman being refered to as JUST "big strong guys", whats wrong with being athletic in the sport, Times change, and we are in a more health conscious world. better diets, more emphasis put on health, not just how much you can lift now. Its about longevity, both an as indiviual, and as a sport. These small comps create a change, a pathway to the top, so you are going to get more people getting involved, believing they have chance, and why shouldnt they believe it. Ive gone off on a few other points there, but I dont believe we are ruining the sport. We are just opening the doors on what is a changing sport, we are going to get fitter, leaner, faster stronger guys each and everyyear,setting the standards higher and higher, and thats a not a bad thing, the sport will progress. Now all these newbies are coming in and overtaking. thats a good thing, so much information on training and diet is available at our fingertips now, As a sport, we need to move away from the steriotype of big fat hairy guys that lift stones. We need to introduce more people into the sport, to continue to shape it. We need athletes represneting the sport, AS ATHLETES, as sports people, not freaks of nature, to allow the sport to become sustainable at a high level. Dave

Stetec		...	19-06-2011 @ 13:20
Thing thinks he can decide what goes here. He cant Member 354, 1452 posts	Trawled through some of that but not all, too many pages, bad heed. I think the original question is bo***cks tbh. You called it a sport. All sports (well most) have levels, divisions, leagues, weight classes etc. Your point is like saying that because I play Sunday league and not in the premiership, I'm not a football player. Because I can't lift what Terry Hollands can, I'm not a strongman. Everyone has to start somewhere and work trhough the ranks depending on how far they want to go with it. Everyone who enters a strongman competition is a strongman competitor. You don't end up at wsm over night. I think this whole argument is demeaning to anyone starting out on their strongman journey. It doesn't matter how strong you are there is always someone stronger or weaker.

Stetec		...	19-06-2011 @ 13:27
Thing thinks he can decide what goes here. He cant Member 354, 1452 posts	Just to add, it's all about perspective really. Am I stronger than Terry Hollands? No. Am I stronger than the old guy down the street? Probably. So to him I'm a strongman. To big Tel, I'm an amoeba!

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