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» Long term vision/goals? (Go to post)23-09-2007 @ 19:10 
It's worth every penny Pete - even when you don't come close to a medal. Not that you would come home empty-handed, of course.

I've got two nice little sayings that might help some of you:

Winners are just dreamers who didn't quit; and

Life is a series of self-fulfilling prophesies.

The road to the Worlds starts in the gym and goes via the regionals and the nationals. Once you put in enough work to enter your first regional, you've taken the first step towards the world stage. Step 2, qualify for the nationals. Step 3, place in the nationals. Step 4, win the nationals. Step 5, British team. Everyone at Step 5 now was once a gym lifter trying to pluck up the courage to take step one. They're not supermen. They're no different to you guys. Slow and consistent improvement year on year and a commitment to succeed will get you far further than you imagine.
» WOODY ALLEN SYNDROME (Go to post)22-09-2007 @ 20:29 
I've had so many pms and emails since "that" thread that it seems churlish to leave the forum. Interesting who some of the "guests" that visit are, btw.

It has left a bit of a sour taste in the mouth. On reflection, I stand by everything I posted and won't be offering a virtual handshake. This forum should not be about slagging off the sports we all work so hard to gain proficiency in, casting unwarranted aspersions at top lifters (some of whom post here - how do you think it makes them feel?), discouraging new lifters from competing, or accusing clean lifters of naievity.

It should be about helping each other to improve and develop and taking the sport forward.

For the record, I don't believe every BWLA or BDFPA lifter is clean, but I believe that the vast majority are.

There is no way that the authorities in either body connive with lifters to avoid positive tests. That may have been true 15 or more years ago, but not now. (BDFPA was originally started up by clean lifters who were pissed off that this appeared to be happening in the '80s).

If I was an official that was being libelled like this within the powerlifting community I would sue, btw, so I think we all need to be careful that nothing is posted that may cause legal problems for Rob further down the line. What do I mean by that? Well if for example you say that BWLA is conniving with lifters to help them evade/avoid doping tests, that must be directed at the Chief Executive, who would then be entitled to sue both the author and the internet host.

There is also a point at which free speech should go no further. Not everything can be justified on the grounds of free speech. Without causing any offence, I hope, free speech would allow me to start a thread on legalising paedeophilia, but moral decency would prevent me.

I come on forums to help, be helped and have a bit of banter with people with similar interests, not to have virtual fights. I think the guy was bang out of order, my opinion is that he was mischief making from the start, and I hope he has been given some food for thought for his future posts. I'll leave it there.
» WOODY ALLEN SYNDROME (Go to post)21-09-2007 @ 14:09 
Won't be keeping my training log here for the time being, but if anyone's interested I'm starting a new one on PLUK. Cheers.
» Is Competitive Powerlifting a Complete Farce? (Go to post)21-09-2007 @ 14:06 
Originally posted by little_a...
You know lads there arnt really enough of us to be falling out. Difference of opinions are one thing, and I beleive, quite healthy, personal attacks from people not getting their own way are OTT and dont really do anyone any good, least of all the sport.
If you guys are genuinely so wound up it's probably best that you dont post at all, let alone on here. Nothing positive will come out of this thread. When people are getting so upset it isnt even funny any more.


I never wanted to post on this, mate, but felt that somebody had to speak up on behalf on the vast majority of clean lifters, both forum users and others. Imo the very title of the post was designed to inflame and cause argument, but if people are more offended by my response than by the thread itself, then it's probably best that I do post elsewhere. Cheers guys.
» Is Competitive Powerlifting a Complete Farce? (Go to post)21-09-2007 @ 13:43 
This isn't about BWLA, it's about badboy casting aspersions on the integrity of all tested powerlifters, the vast majority of whom are clean. Olly, I don't like posting like this, but a pm wouldn't have got the message across to aspiring lifters that they can lift clean and succeed while so doing. Imo these people have to be publicly challenged. I tried to do it properly (lots of stats on slow and steady development, frequency of testing, etc.) but to no avail. Then when I talked Tom out of thoughts of not competing, he comes back on and basically calls him totally naive. What am I supposed to do? Just sit back and let him peddle his crap and keep putting people off? And indirectly accusing every top tested lifter of being a cheat?

If this forum is about anything at all, it's about our mutual love of powerlifting. It shouldn't be a vehicle that allows people to slag it off and drag it down. "Devil's Advocate" is not a term I would have thought appropriate. "Troll" might be more suitable. As I said, if I'm in the minority on this, I'll happily post somewhere else instead. I come on to forums to be entertained, informed and, occasionally, to put something back. I don't come on to be wound up and read the type of uninformed s**t that you see on some other sites that I won't mention.
» Is Competitive Powerlifting a Complete Farce? (Go to post)21-09-2007 @ 13:16 
Don't care who you know and who you are. I would like to know what your motives are, though? When you start putting people off taking up the sport and keep on with totally unsubstantiated wink-wink-nugde-nudge allegations, you do your little bit to keep the sport small and insignificant.

If you're in the majority, I'll just go post somewhere else. Imo you're ruining Sugden with all the s**t you're posting.
» Is Competitive Powerlifting a Complete Farce? (Go to post)21-09-2007 @ 12:59 
Originally posted by badboy007...
Martin I'm interested that you think this is 'internet bulls**t'lol.

1) There only needs to be a bannned list if people are banned

AND

2) People get banned through taking banned substances

AND

3) There are people on the banned list

FACT

4) Testing isn't guaranteed to catch every 'cheat'

THUS

5) There are an unestimatable but probs significant number who aren't LIFETIME clean.

I don't see how you can argue with logic and fact?

Truth is, the whole issue is so sweeped under the carpet at BWLA. I, for one, would like to see a much more transparent approach.


I wish c**ts like you who talk down the sport they supposedly love would just f**k off somewhere else. You said in another post it's good that there's no nobs of this forum. Well there's at least one, and I'm replying to him. There's lots of us trying to promote and develop the sport and the last thing we need is prats telling new lifters that they've got no chance of achieving anything.

To everyone else, sorry about the language, but imo this prick is dragging down the whole forum.
» Is Competitive Powerlifting a Complete Farce? (Go to post)21-09-2007 @ 09:43 
Originally posted by tbench...
the way i see it as the discussion began was about drug use even in tested feds this to me as a beginer and drug free has left a sour taste in my mouth, i dont even know if its worth compeating,i mean whats the point if some c**ts going to beat you with juice,and by whats been said you dont know whos on it unless you know someone! it stinks i dont think its worth competing against anyone unless i get juiced and thats not worth it.really.what is the point?!!!!


This is EXACTLY why I posted on this thread. The guys that bulls**t about everyone being on it deter new lifters from coming into the sport. Tom, mate, the vast majority of us are clean, and BDFPA is probably cleaner than anywhere else. You saw me and Marc break records and pick up medals absolutely clean in July. You can too. Anyway, most of the gear junkies have f**ked up their health and joints by the time they get to mid-40s so they can't lift any more.

Don't let some internet bulls**t deflect you from your goals, Train hard and lift strong.
» WOODY ALLEN SYNDROME (Go to post)20-09-2007 @ 23:01 
First proper session back tonight. Went in for a gentle one, ended up working really hard.

Bar for 10
40 for 10
60 for 8
80 for 6
100 for 4
120 for 2
140 for 1
170 in shirt off 4 inch board for 1
180 off 2 inch board for 1
185 to touch failed

100 x 3 for 6 sets speed work
60 + band for 5 sets of 8.

And that was it. Not too worried about not getting the 185. Not in shape for that after all the drinking and travelling of the last week (after getting back from Germany Monday evening I drove down to Devon and back Tuesday for the puppy). Never used bands before and they felt grrrrrreat. Hopefully the missing link in the quest for 200.

Decided on my training strategy now. I need to do shirt work, band work, heavy raw and band work every week and my recovery dictates that's all fitted into two sessions. I plan to do shirt work Monday, then follow it with a declining load from 140 back to 100. Max out on 140, reduce bar to 130 and add two reps, reduce to 120 and add two reps...

On Thursday, do four sets of speed work, then a full band session (not decided reps range yet - probably quite high reps to educate the muscles) then another four speed sets as the finishing work.

Not going to do any assistance on either bench night, but will fit it in during the week on the non-bench days.

Really feeling the effects of the bands work. Can't believe the efffect such a light weight has had on my front delts and triceps. Looking forward to next Thursday already!
» WOODY ALLEN SYNDROME (Go to post)19-09-2007 @ 21:14 
Grin Grin Grin Grin . It's when he tries to take me I get worried. But we're all shirtlifters and proud of it - apart from that straighto Steve Demeis, of course.
» WOODY ALLEN SYNDROME (Go to post)19-09-2007 @ 20:57 
Cheers Nick. I'll post it when I work it out! But I've virtually decided to focus all my training on equipped benching.

Today, got back into the gym to blow away a few cobwebs. Lots of young nobheads in, unfortunately. Must avoid that time in future. Did 20 minutes cardio whilst relating my experiences to Joey on the next machine, then medium heavy shoulder press and three sets of front dumbell raises and that was it. Back on the bench tomorrow...
» Is Competitive Powerlifting a Complete Farce? (Go to post)19-09-2007 @ 20:51 
Don't think there's any need for me to edit names, badboy. You mentioned a 965+ squat, Clive did a 968 this year, it seemed pretty clear who it was aimed at. If it was aimed at someone else, just say that I've misunderstood your post and leave it there. I've put up the Wilks progress of the two names Jim mentioned to illustrate the way they have improved over time. If Jim had any doubts at all, he wouldn't have come on here and backed them, he'd just have said nothing. You tend to have a fair idea about your immediate rivals and team mates when you start competing on the national and international stages.

I'll continue to agree that there is drugs use in powerlifting and continue to argue with people who say that virtually everyone is on it.

Btw, if Clive is on one of these amazing new undetectable ones, he's taking the lower body one because his bench this year was 20 kilos down on last year.
» Is Competitive Powerlifting a Complete Farce? (Go to post)19-09-2007 @ 20:18 
Originally posted by Tony...
Martin if you don't curb the attitude I'm going to drag iHawk over here and let him loose on your ass.

Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
» Is Competitive Powerlifting a Complete Farce? (Go to post)19-09-2007 @ 20:18 
Originally posted by badboy007...
I agree Jim,

"I'm sure there's absolute freaks out there that do it though (and I think I know a few of these crazy f**ked up freaks of nature myself)."

I don't want to get into debates about individual lifters, because we will never know. I do know more about powerlifting in the West Mids in particular than i'm letting on, and again I don't wanna get into this! If yhou found someone squatting 965+ lbs in single ply gear, great depth, drug free, then they would be the best squatter to ever walk the face of the earth. Period.


Sorry to prolong this "debate" but this post has really bugged me so I've done a bit of research. The 965+ squat comment is clearly aimed at Clive Henry, who did 440 kilos (968 pounds) at the British Championships this year, setting a European squat record and a M1 World squat record. Clive has competed in the British Championships every year from 1991 to 2007 inclusive. He first lifted in 1991 at a bodyweight of 95.60; this year his bodyweight was 125.80. So when you take account of his improvements, you need to bear in mind he has gained 30 kilos of quality muscle slowly and gradually over 16 years.

In order, his Wilks points score over the years has been (in round figures):

478/469/499/513/529/546/530/528/538/554/567/587/577/579/578.

I've used Wilks rather than totals because it's easier to relate to the improvements without having to correlate totals to variable bodyweights. Clive has competed for 16 years continuously and has improved his Wilks total by exactly 100 points over 16 years. That's an average of just over 6 points a year and that improvement will be partly due to the vast improvements in supportive equipment since 1991. Factor in the equipment and the improvement would probably be nearer 3 or 4 points a year.

You get really good at powerlifting and last for a long time by steadily improving year after year after year. Clive has been subject to countless tests over this period and has passed every one. No one in BWLA is "protecting" him or anyone else. Those allegations are just ill informed internet bulls**t.

The reason I have bothered replying at all is that some of the younger members might be swayed by the "everybody's on it" bulls**tters and if even one is persuaded to go down that route then it's one too many. As Jim says, you don't need drugs. And Clive doesn't deserve that type of slur.

I don't give a runny s**te what people think privately, but suggesting everyone is doing it on a forum like this might lead people astray.

By the way, Dean Bowring's Wilks improvement is 99 points between 1995 and 2007, an average of just over 8 a year and quite a bit of that will be bench shirt related. Same progression as Clive - lots of hard work, technical improvements, improved muscle, tendon and ligament strength. And test after test after test over the period, clean every time.

So don't you lads starting out fall for this drugs bulls**t. Committment, hard work, good coaching and longevity will get you there - in about 15 years!
» Is Competitive Powerlifting a Complete Farce? (Go to post)19-09-2007 @ 14:40 
Originally posted by little_a...
Originally posted by Martin1956...
Very briefly, the Olympic motto translates as Faster, Higher, Stronger.

But is that actually the Olympic motto?
Both the 5 rings and the Olympic flame were 'invented' by the Nazi's for the 36 games. In short they have no history in the Olympics and although they make great spectacle they were nonetheless put there by one of the most hateful organisations ever. It may seem off thread, but brings home to me that not all the truths that we base our life decisions on are in fact truths. Also, with the above in mind, are you guys really so kean to be part of such a movement?


Sorry - you're completely wrong. The Olympic Motto is "Citius, Altius, Fortius", which translates as "Faster/Swifter, Higher, Stronger". If the purpose of the Olympics in part is to allow the world's strongest people to compete, then why does the world's strongest sport not get in when synchronised swimming and synchronised diving do? This had nothing to do with the Nazis - it was proposed by Baron Pierre De Coubertin, the founder of the modern Olympics, in 1896.

The Olympic Flag was with the five rings was adopted in 1914, but because of WW1 was used for the first time at the Antwerp Games in 1920. Again nothing to do with the Nazis.

The Olympic Flame tradition started in 1928, well before the Berlin Games. The flame relay was first staged in Berlin and has continued ever since.

To try and associate a festival to bring the youth of the world together in sporting friendship with the Nazis is totally wrong.

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