Wendler's 5/3/1 is crap?
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| JonA81 |  | ... | 25-05-2012 @ 20:32 |
 Member 2216, 2243 posts | fong said:woa that's a lot, what sort of % we talking about? i do my main lifts then finish up with 5x10 50-60%, depending on the lift. 5s week final set is around 75% on your first week. Everyone seems to forget theres progression built in to the system and your final sets dont have to be death or glory week in week out. | ||
| fong | | ... | 25-05-2012 @ 20:35 |
 really really interesting Member 3474, 2816 posts SQ 170, BP 120, DL 260550.0 kgs @ 100kgs UnEq | Post Edited: 25.05.2012 @ 20:35 PM by fong i've probably been doing this very wrong then haha.example day for me is bench press 10x 50kg (warmup) 5x 70kg (warmup) 3x 95kg 3x 100kg 3x 105kg 10x 65kg 10x 65kg 10x 65kg 10x 65kg 10x 65kg then end it all off with an isolation ex or something. | ||
| LessThanLuke | | ... | 25-05-2012 @ 20:37 |
 his poor male ego must be crushed Member 883, 6251 posts SQ 290, BP 180, DL 420890.0 kgs @ 105kgs UnEq | Post Edited: 25.05.2012 @ 20:37 PM by LessThanLuke Yeah you have been doing it wrong. The top set is supposed to be for max reps(or closeish to max). That is the main way you progress on the program. Did you not read the book properly? :PYou should have been doing. 10x 50kg (warmup) 5x 70kg (warmup) 3x 95kg 3x 100kg 105kg x max reps Then assistance. | ||
| fong | | ... | 25-05-2012 @ 20:38 |
really really interesting Member 3474, 2816 posts SQ 170, BP 120, DL 260550.0 kgs @ 100kgs UnEq | Post Edited: 25.05.2012 @ 20:38 PM by fong http://www.mediafire.com/view/?6vbylv0vhv1q3jleasier in spreadsheet form tbh, it's hard to read unless you download it but you kinda see it and i used this to base it off, never read the book http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/hardcore-look-at-jim... | ||
| LessThanLuke | | ... | 25-05-2012 @ 20:40 |
his poor male ego must be crushed Member 883, 6251 posts SQ 290, BP 180, DL 420890.0 kgs @ 105kgs UnEq | Post Edited: 25.05.2012 @ 20:42 PM by LessThanLuke Well now you know better haha. Read the book. It's a good read. The last set on the spreadsheet should have a + after the last number of reps. | ||
| fong | | ... | 25-05-2012 @ 20:40 |
really really interesting Member 3474, 2816 posts SQ 170, BP 120, DL 260550.0 kgs @ 100kgs UnEq | basically if i've been doing it wrong i'm ok with it haha, this method's added 5kg or more a month to all my lifts very consistently. 'fongs 531!' | ||
| fctilidie | | ... | 25-05-2012 @ 20:46 |
Grandad Goatse Member 2494, 5035 posts SQ 120, BP 110, DL 125355.0 kgs @ 67kgs UnEq | I've been doing 531 for over 2 years and think it's great. As has already been mentioned you shouldn't be doing heavy singles after going for max reps on the top set, if you plan to do a few heavy singles you just do the required reps on the top set. Fong you have been doing it wrong, although he does say you can just do the required reps if you don't feel like going for max reps so suppose you've been doing it in way. Like Luke said give the book a read, you'll find it very helpful. | ||
| macroth | | ... | 25-05-2012 @ 20:47 |
 no longer the Swiss Deadlift record holder Member 3517, 3368 posts SQ 182.5, BP 122.5, DL 255560.0 kgs @ 90kgs UnEq | Post Edited: 25.05.2012 @ 20:54 PM by macroth I started with low-ish estimated 1RMs (hadn't been lifting consitently recently), and you take 10% off that before calculating your percentages for the main lifts. So it's not unusual to have pretty high reps on your 5+, 3+ and 1+ sets at first. The question if high reps "work" for your goals, and that depends on the individual.FWIW I got 9, 11 and 10 reps on my latest 1+ sets for squat, cgbp and dl. And followed up with significant PB's. So I'll stick with it as long as it keeps working. It's all in my log if you care to have a look. In the end it's just exercise. There's cultish BS around Wendler, CrossFit, Rippetoe, Westside and others, but that shouldn't stop you from doing a programme that you enjoy and fits your goals. EDIT: Two things: - You don't have to push it every week, but you should on the 1+ week. OTOH, if yuo're doing the required reps and adding weight each month, that's still progress. - The 5x10 backoff sets is just one of the assistance templates. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not mandatory. - | ||
| Thing | | ... | 25-05-2012 @ 20:50 |
 a large fingered spastic that demolishes plant Member 89, 31706 posts SQ 260, BP 220, DL 290770.0 kgs @ 142kgs UnEq | vjohn82 said:Spent 4 months on Wendler's 5/3/1... then switch to the Smolov squat cycle for 4 weeks and then went back to 5/3/1 one again. I did 11 reps at 162.5kg on my deadlift last night but after throwing in two heavy singles (for the first time since herniating a disc last year) I have come away with a slight back strain again (more likely to be a facet joint issue if I am being honest - wife is an orthopaedic nurse which helps diagnosing these things). I have been "told off" for doing high reps and another poster has suggested that 5/3/1 is the "scourge of the net". What's everyone's thoughts on these two points? Here's my take. i have been suffering a facet joint problem L3, L4, L5 on the right side. Now looking at thing it an important thing to make sure your core and lower back and core is strong as f**k and that your technique is spot on. i have used the 5/3/1 through my time with this back issue and found that if your training it will a back problem (my own experience others may be different) that you can get to a point where you doing lots of reps and then try the odd singe and the reps where easy and then you have cause a problem. on this i think 5/3/1 is not the best choice for a person with a back back and that something else my be better. for me when i get back to it i think Technique, reps, flexibility and mobility are the main points to make sure that are good before any weight is added. but 5/3/1 for people who dont have an injured body part or a problem part. its great as i took my military press from 130 kg to 150 kg running it 3 time ( its dropped down now but i know i can do it if a train for it) it took me up to a 205kg bench again and i almost nailed a 210. so to say the 5/3/1 is s**t by some folk on the t'nternet if a little naive as if they have under stood the programm and b een patient then you will make gains if your tech and assistance work IMO are good also along with rest and diet (like alot of programs) i would recommend 5/3/1 for running through a strongman season so your can still make small gain but not f**k yourself, and then your can pick smolov masters or other routine for your winter run up. just my opinion lads. | ||
| bulkaholic | | ... | 25-05-2012 @ 21:02 |
 Member 762, 79 posts SQ 200, BP 135, DL 250585.0 kgs @ 106kgs UnEq | I think there has been something missed here???? It's called 5/3/1 not 10, 10, 10, 10 that looks like FST7 or something, now that really is some total s**t training method | ||
| IrishMarc | | ... | 25-05-2012 @ 21:05 |
no really Irish Member 1196, 5908 posts SQ 312, BP 230, DL 320862.0 kgs @ 114kgs UnEq | 5/3/1 isn't so much a programme as it is a really good weekly progression, I used it for bench earlier this year with pretty good success I would just take the general idea. 90% 1RM 75% rep out 85% rep out 95% rep out Deload or test Max And throw it in on any barbell lift or even dumbell lift that you would like to keep ticking over and improving on a monthly basis. I think it's a solid template and very good for lifts that just need to tick over increase but not at blinding rates at the expense of more important training volume. | ||
| Billwest | | ... | 25-05-2012 @ 21:12 |
Member 541, 4893 posts SQ 192.5, BP 120, DL 222.5535.0 kgs @ 92.8kgs UnEq | Having trained on it a couple of times I think the best and the worst that can be said of it is that it is 'steady'. On the one hand gives you a good way of making weekly progression, but on the down side it can be a bit boring. Progress in terms of single rep maxes can be a long time coming. If you want spectacular results quick then it is not the template you need. | ||
| vjohn82 | | ... | 25-05-2012 @ 21:32 |
 Member 3621, 36 posts | Thanks for all of the replies. My 11 reps on my deadlift were 162.5kg and this was my final set of my 3 x 3+ week (the + denoting an AMRAP set - "As Many Reps As Possible". Essentially gives you a target to aim for each month. The philosophy behind Wendler's approach is that if you have repped 150kg 6 times in Cycle 1 but then 150kg x 10 in Cycle 3 you have gotten stronger. He thinks pulling PRs, on most occasions, is a pointless endeavour. As for my own circumstances, the posters are right... I was not following my plan for that day. I wanted to hit some good reps (as I had not deadlifted for a while) and then do my asisstance work, PWO stretches and go home. Instead, I got into a 1RM session at the end with my training partner and pushed it too far. I do not blame the programming of 5/3/1 for this in case anyone got the wrong impression... I blame myself entirely. I was being egotistical and lifting those weights should not have mattered to me. I think I have gotten away with the injury in that it's not as severe as I first thought. Hopefully this won't dent my progress for this cycle. If it does, tough luck for me. I'll learn from it. Personally, I love 5/3/1. I get my main lifts done... then can cram in some nice assistance work to build up weak spots. The spreadsheet I have is brilliant and I can really see how I am progressing. | ||
| fong | | ... | 25-05-2012 @ 22:07 |
really really interesting Member 3474, 2816 posts SQ 170, BP 120, DL 260550.0 kgs @ 100kgs UnEq | bulkaholic said:I think there has been something missed here???? It's called 5/3/1 not 10, 10, 10, 10 that looks like FST7 or something, now that really is some total s**t training method i thought that too lol but whatever | ||
| JohnGym | | ... | 25-05-2012 @ 22:55 |
 Hamstrings feel activated. Member 1107, 6964 posts SQ 220, BP 152.5, DL 252.5625.0 kgs @ 93kgs UnEq | Use the calculator http://blackironbeast.com/5/3/1/calculator | ||