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| ChrisMcCarthy |  | ... | 24-06-2021 @ 18:38 |
Lost his pen, then found his pen. #phew Member 4899, 2956 posts | EDCLARKE said: well presumably you could say but for some reason are choosing not to .i'm going to continue to assume you haven't listened to it. I've listened to it Did you finish it? | ||
| WILLSAN |  | ... | 24-06-2021 @ 18:48 |
 Trump will get another four years Member 126, 16707 posts SQ 160, BP 110, DL 225495.0 kgs @ 75kgs UnEq | ChrisMcCarthy said: Because YouTube have a Policy of not allowing any old (damaging) s**t people want to shout about, I guess. Really it was all there in my post above, had you read it and not just added it to my Derailing Count. if you had watched the video or the previous video you would have seen that is was a doctor, representing a collective of doctors working for a non profit who are trying to find treatments for covid. they have successfully treated many patients with their protocol which includes ivermectin. they talk about the studies that back up their claims and the possible motivation to suppress therapeutic treatments. the second video features the inventor of MRNA vaccines, Dr. Robert Malone, who whilst advocating for the safety of MRNA vaccines in general is raising serious questions about the MRNA vaccines we are using to treat covid. I find them credible and, to be quite honest, I think the suppresion of their voices is damaging whether their views are founded or not. dangerous lies are more likely to come from censorship than from free speech. | ||
| EDCLARKE | | ... | 24-06-2021 @ 18:53 |
 not particularly well educated Member 85, 10986 posts SQ 170, BP 130, DL 260560.0 kgs @ 90kgs UnEq | ChrisMcCarthy said: I've listened to it Did you finish it? oh ok why didn't you just say that then . yes ive finished it now , i found them credible and believable presumably you didn't what was it specifically about them that you didn't find credible? | ||
| ChrisMcCarthy | | ... | 24-06-2021 @ 18:57 |
Lost his pen, then found his pen. #phew Member 4899, 2956 posts | WILLSAN said: if you had watched the video or the previous video you would have seen that is was a doctor, representing a collective of doctors working for a non profit who are trying to find treatments for covid. they have successfully treated many patients with their protocol which includes ivermectin. they talk about the studies that back up their claims and the possible motivation to suppress therapeutic treatments. the second video features the inventor of MRNA vaccines, Dr. Robert Malone, who whilst advocating for the safety of MRNA vaccines in general is raising serious questions about the MRNA vaccines we are using to treat covid. I find them credible and, to be quite honest, I think the suppresion of their voices is damaging whether their views are founded or not. dangerous lies are more likely to come from censorship than from free speech. Will, I know who was involved here. | ||
| WILLSAN | | ... | 24-06-2021 @ 19:00 |
Trump will get another four years Member 126, 16707 posts SQ 160, BP 110, DL 225495.0 kgs @ 75kgs UnEq | ChrisMcCarthy said: Will, I know who was involved here. good. others will too now. hopefully they will watch the content and make their own judgement. | ||
| AdamT | | ... | 24-06-2021 @ 19:35 |
AKA the great reset Member 4056, 5206 posts | It's pretty obvious why don't want to use ivermetcin The vaccines are only allowed for emergency use until 2023 and if there is no emergency? Then there is no need for their vaccines There are plenty getting rich off these vaccines for sure and imo it's not in their interest to use readily available drugs I honestly whole heartily believe countries are looking to crash the economy to then 'build back better The great reset is a conspiracy, but it certainly not a theory How else could they bring about such changes without a 'global catastrophe'? Coronavirus and climate change is the excuse they need to implement permanent changes to the way we live our lives Even if you think I'm mad? That's fine But I will bet anything that the world will be completely different by the end of the decade and we are certainly not going back to pre 2020 way of life I hope I'm wrong, but this whole thing stinks What sort of pandemic needs 24 hour a day propaganda hammered down our throats by the government and media alike | ||
| ChrisMcCarthy | | ... | 24-06-2021 @ 21:03 |
Lost his pen, then found his pen. #phew Member 4899, 2956 posts | EDCLARKE said: oh ok why didn't you just say that then . yes ive finished it now , i found them credible and believable presumably you didn't what was it specifically about them that you didn't find credible? Sorry, I do forget that I'm not always clear online! I'll get back to you with a longer response on this - if I don't within a couple of days please don't let me forget.  | ||
| Rick | | ... | 24-06-2021 @ 21:23 |
 I am a bench-only guy Member 3, 10034 posts SQ 185, BP 175, DL 235595.0 kgs @ 140kgs UnEq Administrator | Ivermectin is not being suppressed. It just isn't. I believe there's a massive, high-quality trial under way at Oxford right now that will hopefully tell us if it works. It would be good if it did. At the moment, we simply do not know if it works or not, because there are almost no decent quality studies on it, and the ones there are pretty much say: can't tell. It certainly ain't a miracle drug. It's very much not clear that it's better than the other cheap treatment protocols available. It's not actually clear that it had any benefit at all, and it might even be harmful. Which is why its own manufacturers do not recommend it for this purpose. Here's a detailed article with citations and numbers explaining exactly what we do and don't know. http://gidmk.medium.com/does-ivermectin-work-for-covid-19-1166... | ||
| luki | | ... | 24-06-2021 @ 21:31 |
Avatar Member 5517, 1538 posts SQ 160, BP 165, DL 201526.0 kgs @ 110kgs UnEq | There is some information coming out on using Corticosteroids to treat heart damage from Covid. https://m.timesofindia.com/world/uk/anti-inflammation-drug-corticosteroids-may-effectively-treat-covid-19-complications-in-children/articleshow/83598490.cms | ||
| WILLSAN | | ... | 25-06-2021 @ 16:42 |
Trump will get another four years Member 126, 16707 posts SQ 160, BP 110, DL 225495.0 kgs @ 75kgs UnEq | Rick said:Ivermectin is not being suppressed. It just isn't. making absolute statements without considering both sides of a debate is foolish. Rick said:I believe there's a massive, high-quality trial under way at Oxford right now that will hopefully tell us if it works. It would be good if it did. sounds like a possible conflict of interest. Rick said:At the moment, we simply do not know if it works or not, because there are almost no decent quality studies on it, and the ones there are pretty much say: can't tell. It certainly ain't a miracle drug. It's very much not clear that it's better than the other cheap treatment protocols available. there are a lot of studies on it. I am not in a position to assess their quality but maybe you are. have you looked at them yourself? or are you relying on the judgement of others? Rick said:It's not actually clear that it had any benefit at all, and it might even be harmful. can you see a double standard here? cheap off patent therapeutic in use for 40 years 'might' be harmful so shouldnt be used and any discussion of it should be censored. vs comparatively expensive never before used in human populations mrna/adenovirus vaccines should be given emergency use licenses and actively promoted across the population of the entire globe despite no long term testing. doesnt sound like an even playing field to me. particularly as the whole basis of the emergency use is contingent on there being no effective therapeutics being available. Rick said:Which is why its own manufacturers do not recommend it for this purpose. sounds compelling on first reading. but again, there is a possible conflict of interests here. being as ivermectin is off patent merck stands to make very little from its use. however, they do stand to make bank from the production of vaccines. http://www.pmlive.com/pharma_news/merck_and_co_to_help_produce... Merck & Co to help produce J&J’s COVID-19 vaccine in the US Company has signed agreements to bolster vaccine manufacturing capacity Merck & Co – known as MSD outside the US and Canada – has signed multiple agreements to expand manufacturing capacity supply of COVID-19 vaccines, including Johnson & Johnson’s (J&J) jab. Rick said:Here's a detailed article with citations and numbers explaining exactly what we do and don't know. http://gidmk.medium.com/does-ivermectin-work-for-covid-19-1166... I think your description is a little off the mark. the citations and numbers in the article only relate to the two papers which the author offers analysis on. this gives the impression that this is the sum total of evidence supporting ivermectin which is simply not true. this makes me think that there is a degree of misdirection or lazy research at work here. id encourage you to take a look at the video ed suggested or this one to hear the counter arguments. https://odysee.com/@BretWeinstein:f/COVID-Ivermectin-and-the-Crime-of-the-Century-DarkHorse-Podcast-with-Pierre-Kory-Bret-Weinstein:f these are not conspiracy theorists. they are bright men making compelling arguments and they sound genuine in their beliefs to me. whether they are right or wrong I think it worth anyones time to hear what they have to say. at the end of the day you dont have to believe in the new world order to consider that big business might use its power and influence to put profits ahead of the welfare of humanity. | ||
| ChrisMcCarthy | | ... | 25-06-2021 @ 17:11 |
Lost his pen, then found his pen. #phew Member 4899, 2956 posts | Post Edited: 25.06.2021 @ 17:11 PM by ChrisMcCarthy Will,You know Malone (for one) likely has a conflict of interest here too, right? Again, this "discussion" is largely no one believing anyone elses references. | ||
| WILLSAN | | ... | 25-06-2021 @ 17:41 |
Trump will get another four years Member 126, 16707 posts SQ 160, BP 110, DL 225495.0 kgs @ 75kgs UnEq | ChrisMcCarthy said:Will, You know Malone (for one) likely has a conflict of interest here too, right? I asked for this conflict of interest to be defined earlier in the thread but no one offered one. maybe you could enlighten me? ChrisMcCarthy said:Again, this "discussion" is largely no one believing anyone elses references. I would suggest that your repetitive critique of the thread itself rather than the topic at hand is contributing to this being a 'discussion' rather than a discussion. you promised ed some substantive analysis. lets hear it. | ||
| ChrisMcCarthy | | ... | 25-06-2021 @ 19:08 |
Lost his pen, then found his pen. #phew Member 4899, 2956 posts | WILLSAN said: you promised ed some substantive analysis. lets hear it. No. | ||
| Rick | | ... | 25-06-2021 @ 19:37 |
I am a bench-only guy Member 3, 10034 posts SQ 185, BP 175, DL 235595.0 kgs @ 140kgs UnEq Administrator | WILLSAN said: making absolute statements without considering both sides of a debate is foolish. True, said the not particularly black kettle. Rick said:I believe there's a massive, high-quality trial under way at Oxford right now that will hopefully tell us if it works. It would be good if it did. sounds like a possible conflict of interest. What, with the vaccine they don't manufacture and aren't making a profit on and that was developed by a totally different group? Hah. there are a lot of studies on it. I am not in a position to assess their quality but maybe you are. have you looked at them yourself? or are you relying on the judgement of others? Of COURSE I'm relying on the judgement of others! While (as a repeatedly published academic who teaches statistics) I'm probably better qualified to do so than just about anybody in this thread, I am still not remotely competent to judge papers in the hard sciences out of my field. Neither are you. That's why I'm posting expert opinion from people working in the field, and that reflects what I think you actually agree is the broad consensus of the expert view. can you see a double standard here? cheap off patent therapeutic in use for 40 years 'might' be harmful so shouldnt be used and any discussion of it should be censored. vs comparatively expensive never before used in human populations mrna/adenovirus vaccines should be given emergency use licenses and actively promoted across the population of the entire globe despite no long term testing. No. Because the question is whether the treatment improves outcomes. We don't know whether Ivermectin does, and it's very plausible from what little quality evidence we actually have that it worsens them. Whereas we have tons of high quality evidence on the effectiveness of the vaccines, and it is implausible that there will be any of the long term effects you keep scare-mongering about because of the very well-understood way that they work. Again, I've linked to quality explanations of this already. I think your description is a little off the mark. the citations and numbers in the article only relate to the two papers which the author offers analysis on. this gives the impression that this is the sum total of evidence supporting ivermectin which is simply not true. this makes me think that there is a degree of misdirection or lazy research at work here. The articles he's talking about are meta-studies analysing all, or very nearly all, the published work. This makes me think you don't either don't understand what you're reading, or are being intentionally dishonest. | ||
| dannyboy73 | | ... | 25-06-2021 @ 19:56 |
Mask it or Casket !! Member 4600, 8166 posts SQ 240, BP 162.5, DL 255657.5 kgs @ 90.5kgs UnEq | 1300 deaths safer? only IF you are in the very high risk group...which the majority are certainly not. Rick said: Yup. And it evidences, once again, the argument that taking the vaccine is FAR safer than not taking it, very clearly and thoroughly. | ||
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