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RickIcon...25-05-2020 @ 21:26 
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WILLSAN said:
I know what you are getting at but, as a general point, actually yes. as a parent, if the law or advice goes against what I believe to be the best interests of my kids - f**k the law, f**k the advice.


Hard to the be a great parent from a cell, as a general principle.
samue1sonIcon...25-05-2020 @ 23:54 
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Rick said:
Hard to the be a great parent from a cell, as a general principle.


I agree with Will.

Law changes. According to huge variables. If my alarm bells went off as a father in light of something legally enforced, then I'd do whatever necessary to protect my children. However, this just ends up a principles argument and is pure rhetoric. I'd be shocked if any parent said that they'd allow law>parental instinct (though I'd prefer to say "wisdom"). I'm not an anti vaxxer, nor a flat Earther but I'm fully aware of history, politics and dictatorships.
I don't think that we are anywhere near some kind of post apocalyptic world, where we are forced to do things against our will but I'm also constantly alert to the possibility of the foundations being laid for such powers to exist. I don't particularly care for anybodies raised eyebrows at the way I think because we, for the most part, live in a society that is happily bit by bit, handing away its human rights to an autonomous, self empowering machine.

I fully expect us to get through this pandemic but I also expect that in 10+ years, that society will become much more divided over how to handle things in the future. And that "virus" will become a governments new buzz word to replace "terrorist" to enforce all kinds of dystopian visions.
WILLSANIcon...26-05-2020 @ 12:21 
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samue1son said:
I agree with Will.
Law changes. According to huge variables. If my alarm bells went off as a father in light of something legally enforced, then I'd do whatever necessary to protect my children. However, this just ends up a principles argument and is pure rhetoric. I'd be shocked if any parent said that they'd allow law>parental instinct (though I'd prefer to say "wisdom"). I'm not an anti vaxxer, nor a flat Earther but I'm fully aware of history, politics and dictatorships.
I don't think that we are anywhere near some kind of post apocalyptic world, where we are forced to do things against our will but I'm also constantly alert to the possibility of the foundations being laid for such powers to exist. I don't particularly care for anybodies raised eyebrows at the way I think because we, for the most part, live in a society that is happily bit by bit, handing away its human rights to an autonomous, self empowering machine.
I fully expect us to get through this pandemic but I also expect that in 10+ years, that society will become much more divided over how to handle things in the future. And that "virus" will become a governments new buzz word to replace "terrorist" to enforce all kinds of dystopian visions.


couldnt have said it better myself.

**like**
unit94Icon...26-05-2020 @ 17:45 
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what is everyone's fran time?
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I'm so happy that the public and media have finally turned on Johnson, so good to see
BillytheoldIcon...26-05-2020 @ 18:08 
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Rick said:
Hard to the be a great parent from a cell, as a general principle.


All the people at the pool were now asked to self quarantine!

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/05/24/us/ozarks-missouri-party/index.html
billynomatesIcon...26-05-2020 @ 18:52 
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Post Edited: 26.05.2020 @ 18:54 PM by billynomates
https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/business-52808059
Spoofer Cummings
dannyboy73Icon...26-05-2020 @ 19:42 
Mask it or Casket !!
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Post Edited: 26.05.2020 @ 20:02 PM by dannyboy73
this is how a growing part of the population feel actually, myself included.
samue1son said:
I agree with Will.
Law changes. According to huge variables. If my alarm bells went off as a father in light of something legally enforced, then I'd do whatever necessary to protect my children. However, this just ends up a principles argument and is pure rhetoric. I'd be shocked if any parent said that they'd allow law>parental instinct (though I'd prefer to say "wisdom"). I'm not an anti vaxxer, nor a flat Earther but I'm fully aware of history, politics and dictatorships.
I don't think that we are anywhere near some kind of post apocalyptic world, where we are forced to do things against our will but I'm also constantly alert to the possibility of the foundations being laid for such powers to exist. I don't particularly care for anybodies raised eyebrows at the way I think because we, for the most part, live in a society that is happily bit by bit, handing away its human rights to an autonomous, self empowering machine.
I fully expect us to get through this pandemic but I also expect that in 10+ years, that society will become much more divided over how to handle things in the future. And that "virus" will become a governments new buzz word to replace "terrorist" to enforce all kinds of dystopian visions.

On the Cumming note, Im concerned that we the UK are moving to a 'Trump' style of government whereby you never admit you are wrong or apologise, thats the golden rule... you just plough on and seemingly through the plebs until the next thing distracts us because we are all being leveled down and have poor attention span.... is that a butterfly in the garden, wow.

also, does anyone belive that the man drove, 30 minutes to a beauty spot on his wives birthday to test his eyes? Honestly, they think we are all thick. makes me sick.
WILLSANIcon...26-05-2020 @ 20:17 
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Post Edited: 26.05.2020 @ 20:18 PM by WILLSAN
Wuhan virus lab was signed off by EU Brexit chief Michel Barnier in 2004 - despite French intelligence warnings that China's poor bio-security reputation could lead to a catastrophic leak


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8351113/Wuhan-virus-lab-si...

Coronavirus may have been a 'cell-culture experiment' gone wrong


https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6158843835001

the paper the above is covering:

https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/2005/2005.06199.pdf

Abstract
The devastating impact of the COVID-19 pandemic caused by SARS–coronavirus 2 (SARSCoV-2) has raised important questions on the origins of this virus, the mechanisms of any
zoonotic transfer from exotic animals to humans, whether companion animals or those used for
commercial purposes can act as reservoirs for infection, and the reasons for the large variations
in SARS-CoV-2 susceptibilities across animal species. Traditional lab-based methods will
ultimately answer many of these questions but take considerable time. Increasingly powerful in
silico modeling methods provide the opportunity to rapidly generate information on newly
emerged pathogens to aid countermeasure development and also to predict potential future
behaviors. We used an in silico structural homology modeling approach to characterize the
SARS-CoV-2 spike protein which predicted its high affinity binding to the human ACE2
receptor. Next we sought to gain insights into the possible origins and transmission path by
which SARS-CoV-2 might have crossed to humans by constructing models of the ACE2
receptors of relevant species, and then calculating the binding energy of SARS-CoV-2 spike
protein to each of these. Notably, SARS-CoV-2 spike protein had the highest overall binding
energy for human ACE2, greater than all the other tested species including bat, the postulated
source of the virus. This indicates that SARS-CoV-2 is a highly adapted human pathogen. Of the
species studied, the next highest binding affinity after human was pangolin, which is most likely
explained by a process of convergent evolution. Binding of SARS-CoV-2 for dog and cat ACE2
was similar to affinity for bat ACE2, all being lower than for human ACE2, and is consistent
with only occasional observations of infections of these domestic animals. Snake ACE2 had low
affinity for spike protein, making it highly improbable that snakes acted as an intermediate
vector. Overall, the data indicates that SARS-CoV-2 is uniquely adapted to infect humans,
raising important questions as to whether it arose in nature by a rare chance event or whether its
origins might lie elsewhere.


Another possibility which still cannot be excluded is that SARSCoV-2 was created by a recombination event that occurred inadvertently or consciously in a
laboratory handling coronaviruses, with the new virus then accidentally released into the local
human population.
lukiIcon...27-05-2020 @ 10:44 
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WILLSAN said:


That hatchet piece on Barnier as French Foreign Minister pushing trade with China is funny. Thats was his job, promote France and French industry internationally. The lab build contract and share of patents derived from the research would have been worth millions to the French economy.

I have no doubt UK&Germany probably bid too as Virology industry centers.

There is a bit in one of the other pieces on the Chinese burning the samples in the lab. This is a disaster.

The whole world has people scouring caves looking for a bat and every city for human patient zero with the the first strain of coronavirus. Every time the virus is transmitted, it adapts to the new host. It is more likely scientists can develop a universal vaccine from the first version, than a version which has evolved and may only immunize against later variants of the virus.

If it turns out it was a lab accident, scientists need the first strain. CCP has potentially literally burned our best chance at a universal virus vaccine.
WILLSANIcon...27-05-2020 @ 11:42 
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luki said:
That hatchet piece on Barnier as French Foreign Minister pushing trade with China is funny. Thats was his job, promote France and French industry internationally. The lab build contract and share of patents derived from the research would have been worth millions to the French economy.
I have no doubt UK&Germany probably bid too as Virology industry centers.
There is a bit in one of the other pieces on the Chinese burning the samples in the lab. This is a disaster.
The whole world has people scouring caves looking for a bat and every city for human patient zero with the the first strain of coronavirus. Every time the virus is transmitted, it adapts to the new host. It is more likely scientists can develop a universal vaccine from the first version, than a version which has evolved and may only immunize against later variants of the virus.
If it turns out it was a lab accident, scientists need the first strain. CCP has potentially literally burned our best chance at a universal virus vaccine.



yeah. think they were just trying to shoehorn barnier in there to rile up certain factions. the more interesting aspect to me was the fact that there were warnings that something like a lab leak could happen previous to the fact.

100% agree on the ccp destroying the samples. that, along with a number of other suspicious actions they took make me think there really is something to investigate here.
lukiIcon...28-05-2020 @ 15:08 
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WILLSAN said:the more interesting aspect to me was the fact that there were warnings that something like a lab leak could happen previous to the fact.


Risk assessment is fairly standard fare in the Civil Service. Any French assessment of working on a joint lab of this kind would include the risk of accidental leaks and how to mitigate against this occurring.

It also makes sense that China is investing in Virology, with 2002-2004 SARS epicenter being Hong Kong. CCP would have issues maintaining control if the populous thought they are not investing in healthcare.*

What I found interesting was the French millionaire investor, who co-built the lab, pulling out of the build half way through and sacrificing potential patent dividends etc.

Also the French scientists being un-invited to help with final setup and the Peoples Liberation Army taking over management of a biological labs safety procedures.* No offence to anyone who served, but what does an Army recruit know about quarantine procedures. This is why a lot of people are saying the lab was a biological equivalent of an atomic ticking time bomb. I also think this is why CCP is blaming the USA and Bat food hygiene or anything else instead of the lab as the epicenter. If the Chinese people come to believe that CCP bungled the security procedures and allowed a leak a lot of the government may find themselves between a wall and a firing squad.

How are you all finding the tracking app?
billynomatesIcon...30-05-2020 @ 15:22 
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Post Edited: 30.05.2020 @ 15:24 PM by billynomates
WILLSANIcon...31-05-2020 @ 09:44 
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worrying about how you can manage social gatherings under the new lockdown rules? dont worry the bbc has lots of useful advice to keep you safe!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52848793?fbclid=IwAR2hBV49k5Rdjavmefi...

5. Washing hands
If you're in the park you might not be able to wash your hands, so I would say bring hand gel, wipes and perhaps water to wash your hands with or identify a sink nearby.

If you're having people in your garden, you need to do everything you can to signal to them that things are not back to normal and to help them feel safe and you feel safe.

You could ask your guests to set their alarms for every 45 minutes or every hour in a staggered way, then everyone could wash their hands when their alarm goes off. If you're hosting, say to everyone "we're all going to wash our hands once an hour".

You could also have a sign somewhere in the toilet that says "wash your hands".


*not the onion*
JohnGymIcon...31-05-2020 @ 17:40 
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My club David Lloyd opens tomorrow morning to members for outdoor fitness.
dannyboy73Icon...10-06-2020 @ 19:58 
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are any families actually following the rules anymore? pretty much everyone i speak to have been in other family members houses...

I think the government has lost credibility except to the faithful few, heaven help them if a second lockdown is needed...

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