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Suspend Parliament...Now what ?

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JohnGymIcon...10-09-2019 @ 19:38 
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Hamstrings feel activated.
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slow_lift_joe said:Please tell you are not serious :- "Are you sure vote."

Why not best out "three votes" or "Are really, really certain about this before you completely screw the country up vote"

How about " Are sure about Corbyn & Abbot vote"

Are sure about " Boris & Mogg vote"

Where does this end.



You missed the reasoning, Joe.




How about,

Me and Pete want YOUR vote. I promise you a billion quid if you vote for me, so you do. I win but don't give you anything, instead I rob your house and shut down the company you work for. Would you want a second vote now that you know I was a f**king lying Tory c**t? Or would you accept you got your balls bluffed off and carry on into the abyss?

My guess is you would want to vote again, as many many leave voters do now they realise they were super bulls**tted to by people they should be able to trust.
slow_lift_joeIcon...10-09-2019 @ 20:07 
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I agree with your point John.

But I think the whole process needs closure and we need to move on due to other pressing matters in the country.

I also believe the sun will come up again and we can adapt and survive.

I think the referendum for the many vote leavers was a two fingers vote to the establishment and I think that resentment still stands in 2019 and if we do not apply the result of first public vote, many people will feels betrayed.

The real winner could be apathy.

I fully understand from a considered, intelligent and full understanding of treaties point the "on reflection vote" might be the answer. But many voters would feel betrayed.

I do not wish to upset either the vote leave people or vote remain people.
I see both points.

I just wish I could remove the emotion in the whole sorry mess.

If it was me in Cameron shoes back in 2016 I would have outlined why we joined the EU and explained the key benefits to be being a member state, destroyed myths and fears.
I also understand the leaver vote reason for leaving for sovereignty and freedom, I get it. I just wish Cameron handled the matter difficultly and people really read the whole treaty and function of the EU and came to a informed decision. The problem with a referendum you never really get a overall majority.

Your point was taken on board my right honourable friend.
Happy
HamIcon...11-09-2019 @ 07:39 
Ham but hey
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For interest sake I would love to see a second vote just to see how much it changes. I think people may well be surprised by how far it swings and how many more voters it brings out
Wayne_CowdreyIcon...11-09-2019 @ 11:42 
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After all this we will probably join again in the future!
KevC86Icon...11-09-2019 @ 12:15 
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Wayne_Cowdrey said:After all this we will probably join again in the future!


I admire your belief that we will actually leave.
WILLSANIcon...11-09-2019 @ 12:47 
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KevC86 said:
I admire your belief that we will actually leave.


I hope we do. If only to witness the epic remoaner meltdown that will follow it.
RickIcon...11-09-2019 @ 19:41 
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We didn't HAVE a referendum in 2016. We had a spoiled ballot nullified by illegal actions on one side (and, it seems increasingly likely, a side at significantly funded by a certain V. Putin). We wouldn't be repeating a vote, but HAVING a vote.

The only alternative to this perspective is to assert that the rich can literally do whatever they want and we no longer have a democracy, but a plutocracy.
RickIcon...11-09-2019 @ 19:42 
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Wayne_Cowdrey said:After all this we will probably join again in the future!


We certainly would, for the same completely compelling reasons we joined in the first place, but on much worse terms than the frankly remarkable deal we have now.
dannyboy73Icon...11-09-2019 @ 19:53 
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I can honestly say. The result of this is a complete mistrust of all politicians. Cant think of a single hero here unless your a remainer then all the rebels are heroes but no, cant trust a single one of them self serving ponces.

I really think the vale has been lifted for good, no longer do we trust our electoral system.

I would be surprised if Tory or lab do well at the general election

I expect a huge grab by the lib dems and and even bigger grab by the Brexit party...

The Brexit party will form a coalition with Cons...get the UK out as voted,,,then hand their seats to cons creating a majority con government (which wont have been voted for) and ta-da another 5 years of austerity missery...

And the irony is the left created this s**t storm by blocking the exit from the EU and more importantly, grossly misjudging the mood of the general public and why? because they are all up their own arses!

As a left-wing / Brexiter with NO where to vote, I despair.
RickIcon...11-09-2019 @ 21:17 
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Post Edited: 11.09.2019 @ 21:17 PM by Rick
I agree about being homeless, politically. I voted Lib Dem for many years, because they were to the left of the Blair/Brown Labour party in many important ways at the time, but the post-coalition, much more right-wing, bunch are weirdly unrepresentative of their voters, and of me. Corbyn has done badly in general and appallingly on the most important issue, nay crisis, in decades - with almost any other leader Labour would be in government by now. And the greens are wrong about one of their core issues (nuclear power), at least in my not so humble opinion.

My constituency is a marginal, so I know how I'll vote. But I shan't be happy about it.
slow_lift_joeIcon...11-09-2019 @ 22:29 
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Rick we have to be careful about the Putin involvement, this is not yet proved.

Of course Russia are meddling, they have been meddling for years in elections across the globe, you could say the same about China.

A smaller EU would suit Russia.

However I would say the following :-

Britain had never quite forgotten two lessons of history: It was the British nationstate, that had 1945 triumphed and had withstood the totalitarian challenges coming from the continent, National Socialism and Communism. Furthermore, democracy was born and had developed in the frame of the nationstate. Empirical evidence gained over decades of the existence of the EU demonstrated to the British that the democratic principle cannot easily, if at all, be transfered on to a transnational entity, as manifold examples of the “democratic deficit” of the European Union demonstrated. It is bureaucracies and corporations that rule and determine to quite an extent the decisions of supranational entities like the EU, not accountable and sackable politicians.

The creation of the Euro was the final triumph of Integrationism and maybe one of the factors that may lead to its final demise. The number of integrationist who are fervent supporters of the Common currency has shrunk; most former British supporters of the EURO today keep quiet about this and are relieved that the UK stayed away from the two most advanced projects of Integration, the Euro and Schengen. Nowadays Integrationist are much more modest in their outlook. They would be happy enough to preserve the EU and its British membership; they would agree that the Union needs reform urgently to survive the dangerous and stormy times lying ahead.

No wonder that their Remain campaign avoids any discussion of promises or daring designs for more integration. Instead they rely heavily on the fear factor, on worries about the economic consequences of a jump into the unknown; they appeal to the selfinterest of British voters. A understandable and rational strategy. It has after all in the past proved to be successful many times. “It is the economy, stupid”, as Bill Clinton said. “Better the devil you know” was and still is the dominant mood music. It will, so the expectation, work in Britain 2016 too. So the warnings of ecomomic disadvantages, of lesser growth and job losses outside the EU got more plentiful, darker and in the end more hyperbolic as time went on.

As far as the Brexiteers are concerned there is a kind of reverse role play going on. To a certain extent they have taken on the role of the utopians. Some of their leading figures seem to have a gleam in their eyes when they paint a golden future of Britain freed from the shackles of an interfering, overregulating Brussels bureaucracy. The world would be keen of trading with the fifth biggest economy on the globe, they say. May be, maybe not. But one has to give it to Brexiteers they try to inspire, unlike the “Remainers”, who predict doom and gloom for Britain outside the safe harbour of the EU.

Move the whole sorry business on and see what happens, surely the UK can survive and the sun will come up. We will trade with the EU and it silly to think we will not.

There are lies and omissions on both sides but this now needs to move on for all our sakes.
Look at all of history it is full of scandal and treachery but it moves along.

Happy
RickIcon...12-09-2019 @ 10:56 
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It's hard to take people talking about the democratic deficits of the EU all that seriously in a country with a constitutional crisis blowing up, Parliament prorogued lest they supervise the executive, a government with no majority or mandate taking sweeping executive action, and a HOUSE OF LORDS.
WILLSANIcon...12-09-2019 @ 15:43 
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I dont trust boris as far as I could throw him but his ability to trigger commies is hilarious.

maybe he is literally hitler.
danbaseleyIcon...12-09-2019 @ 23:38 
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Post Edited: 12.09.2019 @ 23:39 PM by danbaseley
I for one, as someone who voted remain, have had about enough this whole debacle.

Especially the constant begging for another vote: I like how the reasons for another vote have changed from "You're a stupid racist, who didn't know what they were voting for", to "It's too small a majority", to "It's taken too long". Still want the same thing, just changing tac to find an argument that fits.

Roll on the end of it all.

If we do run out of food, petrol and medicine, it'll be like living in the old days - which many Brexiteers will love - and the constant threat of shortages will allow my fellow Remainers to carry on whinging ad infinitum.

Everyone is happy. Sort of.
billynomatesIcon...25-09-2019 @ 14:21 
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Quick glance at the news today and they're saying another referendum is the only way out of the quagmire. Be hilarious if the 2nd vote was also to leave

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