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Who thinks routines are pointless?

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little_aIconWho thinks routines are pointless?10-11-2007 @ 16:54 
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still a devious weightlifting bastard
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And why would you never follow one?

I personally have a distinct dislike for them. The concept of being in the gym obviously on fire and having to do a miserable % because the routine calls for it. The other side is your on a 100%+ week and you pick up a cold or something which means the weights dont go, you've lost your targets and the previous x amount of weeks are pretty much wasted. Confidence fails, and everything slips away with it. Maybe I just dont like being told what to do? Anyway, thoughts guys...
CarlIcon...10-11-2007 @ 17:04 
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i have just followed my first set out routine, and its the most i have gained on bench in a good while
HaydenIcon...10-11-2007 @ 17:05 
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memories , like the corners of my mind ....
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Carl said:
i have just followed my first set out routine, and its the most i have gained on bench in a good while


And belly

Grin
little_aIcon...10-11-2007 @ 17:13 
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still a devious weightlifting bastard
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Lets not turn this into a routine v no routine thread as Rob says in the thread below. If you have a routine that works please post it here http://www.sugdenbarbell.co.uk/forum.php?a=903

This thread should be for the devil may care non scientific types who believe that all %'s are evilGrin
JoniIcon...10-11-2007 @ 17:13 
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left the country satisfied
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have done both approaches and i personally think that the crucial difference of whether set routine is good or not is down to circumstances, mainly training partners/coaches.

If you train alone set routines are sometimes a good idea to keep you on track, not to let you get into the frame of mind of thinking that you are training hard, but are not really. They are also good for people who struggle to build up progression on their own.

But when training with someone who pushes you and knows you enough to say when to go for it, and when not, then set routines are more harm than good.

one thing about set routines, if you nail 3x100 one day and 3x100 on another, they could be totally different kind of days. Its not always about just the numbers, but HOW you nail them.

i think most of the famous set routines from famous coaches are far from what they would have their lifters doing day in day out when giving face to face coaching.

So i fall into the camp of not really keen with fixed routines, i do have a general plan though, what main lifts on what days, and so on (but am pretty flexible with them as well). Seems to be ok for now, lets see how i gain in the next 6-8 months.
WiganIcon...10-11-2007 @ 17:14 
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Each to their own is what i say, if it works for you then good stuff.

Personally i'm of a similar way of thinking as Andy, i have a routine in as much as the movements i'll be doing but the weights handled is pretty much played by ear.
AlexIcon...10-11-2007 @ 17:41 
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I've never followed a routine, so I don't know what my gains would be like with one.

What I try and do is bear in mind some of the vague theories about training (ie. low reps max strength, higher reps hypertrophy and everything inbetween), how long it roughly takes to recover, yet choose my sets/reps based on how I feel on the day. Say I've only had 2 days rest from pulling, and in theory you need 3, if I feel strong then I will pull anyway. If I feel really strong doing sets then I might go for a PB, rather than following a specific peaking routine.

I think once you get to know how your body deals with training, you can make pretty good guesses as to what you're capable of in a given session.

Having said that, I'm sure the routines the elite Oly coaches come up with aren't just for fun, and are based on anecdotal evidence from hundreds of lifters. So they probably work as well, maybe better than going off instinct.

One thing I'm sure of is that we don't know enough about the adaptation to weightlifting to make any concrete statements on what to lift, just guidelines.
CarlIcon...10-11-2007 @ 17:59 
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Carl said:
i have just followed my first set out routine, and its the most i have gained on bench in a good while


having said this i did manage to pull 501lbs at 17 years old without so much as a routine, deload or any real assitance

and hayden, you are fat, i am fit
RobIcon...10-11-2007 @ 18:01 
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Great idea for a thread!

I haven't followed specific routines much at all in the bulk of my training, but most of it does tend to be based on simple linear progression. Good sides and bad sides to this much along the points Joni mentioned.

I've definitely made some good progress just winging it and going for some sort of PB at every session, but one reason I won't read too much into this is as at my level you can make progress any one way as long as it's remotely sensible.
mishimaIcon...10-11-2007 @ 18:49 
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Good points!

I dont follow a routine, i simply do what i'm told and try my best with everything i have left in tank.
I find % are a good way not to fool yourself. If i do a complex like 1 hang snatch + 1 snatch pull + 1 pwr snatch, i must aim at 80% of my best snatch ever, otherwise it is a steal, simple as.
Pulls should be 120% of your best bar for triples same with front squats which are roughly 80% of your back squat themselves. Dont get me wrong, people are different and i'm not saying this is some basic law like gravity. Thats just what i understand % are good for. I welcome criticism!
BoarIcon...10-11-2007 @ 19:07 
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i have never followed a routine with % as the main focus nor anything with a name, but i do set exersises which is a loose routine, when i was full-boar i just turned up and trained hard !!
RickIcon...10-11-2007 @ 19:28 
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The only times I've followed a percentage-based routine were the Coan bench I ran twice, which I did ok on, and Olly's deadlift plan, which again I did ok on. I think they're most useful for young lifters to give them some idea, and to get away from either (a) doing whatever you feel like with no sense in it or (b) trying to go flat out all the time with the same thing. When you're somebody like Andy who knows what he should be doing from 25 years of doing it, or if you have a coach, you don't need them.

I do think it helps to have a bit of a plan. Didn't you show Alan your plan until Christmas on squats recently, Andy? Of course you needn't stick to it, but surely it makes sense to have some idea of where you're going.

One of the things I really like about Joe's bench routine is that there are no percentages; all it specifies is the rep ranges and the general idea, which is "keep going up in small jumps until you couldn't go up again".
WILLSANIcon...10-11-2007 @ 20:07 
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I dont generally follow set routines. I just have a few loose training rules I stick to. I basically just try and hit at least some sort of PB every session whether it be a 1 rep max, a lift for time/distance or for sets+reps. I think I need to do that to keep my confidence and motivation high as I seem to make my best gains with a positive mindset. I dont have the patience to stick to a set program. I cant wait 10 weeks for my PB crack hit!!!
little_aIcon...10-11-2007 @ 20:14 
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still a devious weightlifting bastard
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Rob said:
Great idea for a thread!

& you have to take full credit for it
Wink
little_aIcon...10-11-2007 @ 20:38 
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still a devious weightlifting bastard
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Rick said:
Didn't you show Alan your plan until Christmas on squats recently, Andy? Of course you needn't stick to it, but surely it makes sense to have some idea of where you're going.

I did. I took a bit of time out from my favourite forum and jotted down a rough idea of the kind of lifts I wanted to be doing for the end of the year and worked backwards weekly. I'm guessing this has a name but TBH I dont know it Confused & yes, I did get Alan to OK it which he did. Upto this point it all looks quite planned out. Almost a routine. Now then, a few points on the above..
1) The exercises and weights were all of my choosing ie I WANT to do these things
2) Alan did OK everything on the list which meant to me that the guy I believe is as right as someone can be with regards to lifting weight BELIEVES that it is the right route to take
3) The first week has already been blown out of the water. Monday was chopped a little due to a bit of fatigue. Wednesday, sets of jerks were dropped in favour of an unscheduled PB set. Friday's push presses were shed a set in favour of a PB x5. Sqts were increased by 15K on a set of 5 to make up for a loss of training this next week. A week in it's only vaguely resembling the original sheet. That said I WANT to do it. I BELIEVE I can, and I'm not scared of making changes either up or down to suit me.Grin

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