Vaccine mandates
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This thread has been closed by a moderator. Replies are no longer possible.| Billwest |  | ... | 26-11-2021 @ 09:46 |
Member 541, 4894 posts SQ 192.5, BP 120, DL 222.5535.0 kgs @ 92.8kgs UnEq | luki said:Ireland has 96%+ vaccinated, mostly with mRNA. No need for a mandate, people are turning up at the vaccine centres asking for a booster after 4-5 months. We also are one of the high R rate of transmission countries people are recommended not to travel to. Our a+e hospitals are all on the verge of shutdown. Operations being cancelled etc. We invested all our health resources on vaccine centres. we ignored testing. The vaccines just aren't working here. Same in Israel. They should spend the money on rapid testing for people planning to see families at Christmas. Try to stop community transmission. Testing is the way forward. Mandating a faulty product is madness. The dire situation with Ireland's health service sounds pretty similar to the UK's actually, only we have had high case rates for months You say vaccinations aren't working, but vaccinations alone were never the one answer to Covid, despite the message that Johnson and his cronies have the sold the UK public. Vaccinations, regular testing and some mask wearing indoors and just being a bit more careful. In the UK, the general attitude seems to be that if we all pretend that Covid has gone away, then the problem is over. Nonsense of course | ||
| Billwest | | ... | 26-11-2021 @ 09:52 |
Member 541, 4894 posts SQ 192.5, BP 120, DL 222.5535.0 kgs @ 92.8kgs UnEq | Post Edited: 26.11.2021 @ 09:52 AM by Billwest I am really uncomfortable with the idea of mandating vaccinations, it all seems a bit draconian. I'd back persuasion over obligation any day. But on the other hand I don't understand the attitude of those who work in the NHS who refuse to get vaccinated. If you believe Covid is 'real' and if you believe that vaccination can provide a high measure of protection against death and serious illness, and if you are working in the health service I can't see how you wouldn't believe both, then why not just get vaccinated? Can anyone shed any light on this, this really has me baffled? | ||
| LessThanLuke |  | ... | 26-11-2021 @ 10:44 |
 his poor male ego must be crushed Member 883, 6251 posts SQ 290, BP 180, DL 420890.0 kgs @ 105kgs UnEq | Billwest said:I am really uncomfortable with the idea of mandating vaccinations, it all seems a bit draconian. I'd back persuasion over obligation any day. But on the other hand I don't understand the attitude of those who work in the NHS who refuse to get vaccinated. If you believe Covid is 'real' and if you believe that vaccination can provide a high measure of protection against death and serious illness, and if you are working in the health service I can't see how you wouldn't believe both, then why not just get vaccinated? Can anyone shed any light on this, this really has me baffled? You can believe that the vaccine works and can help protect people in general against serious illness and death and also think its an unnecessary risk for yourself on a personal level. Don't understand how this is hard for you to comprehend. | ||
| Billwest | | ... | 26-11-2021 @ 13:02 |
Member 541, 4894 posts SQ 192.5, BP 120, DL 222.5535.0 kgs @ 92.8kgs UnEq | LessThanLuke said: You can believe that the vaccine works and can help protect people in general against serious illness and death and also think its an unnecessary risk for yourself on a personal level. Don't understand how this is hard for you to comprehend. For ordinary people I totally take your point, but for people work in a hospital and are confronted with it everyday, and seen unvaccinated people of all ages affected, not just the elderly and unhealthy. For people who work in the health sector, I’d have thought the distinction you draw between a general health risk and a specific risk to the staff does not really exist. | ||
| Rick | | ... | 26-11-2021 @ 15:07 |
 I am a bench-only guy Member 3, 10034 posts SQ 185, BP 175, DL 235595.0 kgs @ 140kgs UnEq Administrator | LessThanLuke said: You can believe that the vaccine works and can help protect people in general against serious illness and death and also think its an unnecessary risk for yourself on a personal level. Don't understand how this is hard for you to comprehend. It’s only possible to believe this for adults in the light of the evidence if you think you are unlikely to be exposed to COVID. This may be true for some, but is not true in health care work. | ||
| dannyboy73 | | ... | 26-11-2021 @ 18:55 |
Mask it or Casket !! Member 4600, 8166 posts SQ 240, BP 162.5, DL 255657.5 kgs @ 90.5kgs UnEq | Post Edited: 26.11.2021 @ 19:00 PM by dannyboy73 Could be a lot of workers in health and social care already have had vid and little side effects and therefore antibodies so see it from that perspective? This would be my main deduction. could also be they are not seeing people like themselves (age, race perceived health etc) in the hospitals seriously ill from it? Ive no evidence of this of course, Or have been spooked for some other reason? But I expect there are 100s of reasons. Billwest said: For ordinary people I totally take your point, but for people work in a hospital and are confronted with it everyday, and seen unvaccinated people of all ages affected, not just the elderly and unhealthy. For people who work in the health sector, I’d have thought the distinction you draw between a general health risk and a specific risk to the staff does not really exist. | ||
| Wayne_Cowdrey | | ... | 26-11-2021 @ 21:55 |
 Still got a little bit of strength Member 400, 22044 posts | I don't want to get too deeply into this and I'm probably slightly off topic, but one thing I'm clearly observing within my circle is that living a healthy lifestyle totally trumps simply getting jabbed. I'm surprised by the number of people who are happy to stay overweight/inactive and simply rely on the jabs. They could do so much better. | ||
| EDCLARKE | | ... | 26-11-2021 @ 22:11 |
 not particularly well educated Member 85, 10986 posts SQ 170, BP 130, DL 260560.0 kgs @ 90kgs UnEq | Wayne_Cowdrey said:I don't want to get too deeply into this and I'm probably slightly off topic, but one thing I'm clearly observing within my circle is that living a healthy lifestyle totally trumps simply getting jabbed. I'm surprised by the number of people who are happy to stay overweight/inactive and simply rely on the jabs. They could do so much better. it amazes me that the Government is not pushing this line more , there's quite clear evidence that being Obese massively increases your risk of being seriously ill with covid and yet you very rarely hear this talked about in the media. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/excess-weight-can-increase-risk-... | ||
| Billytheold | | ... | 27-11-2021 @ 02:41 |
 Sugdens crazy old person. Member 4936, 7288 posts SQ 270, BP 155, DL 270695.0 kgs @ 100kgs UnEq | When I was a kidlad comma, I used to chase the milk truck and he would give us ladkids a big chuck of tasty ice to break our teeth on! What why is this happening? When things happen that you are afraid of… Got sick getting a flu shot once! Do I still chew ice? Crack my teeth worse! That darn milkman but it was my choice back then! | ||
| dannyboy73 | | ... | 27-11-2021 @ 08:15 |
Mask it or Casket !! Member 4600, 8166 posts SQ 240, BP 162.5, DL 255657.5 kgs @ 90.5kgs UnEq | i agree. the single thing you can do to reduce your risk is to lose weight after 18months... i cant see the logic in being afraid but refusing to reduce your size? Wayne_Cowdrey said:I don't want to get too deeply into this and I'm probably slightly off topic, but one thing I'm clearly observing within my circle is that living a healthy lifestyle totally trumps simply getting jabbed. I'm surprised by the number of people who are happy to stay overweight/inactive and simply rely on the jabs. They could do so much better. | ||
| Ham | | ... | 27-11-2021 @ 08:19 |
Ham but hey Member 4787, 205 posts | Post Edited: 27.11.2021 @ 08:20 AM by Ham Thought provoking for sure. As with most things, I am divided as most reasonable folk can surely at least see two sides to any situation.We are encouraged to believe the government has integrity and sound backing for such measures but in the same breathe we are fed alarming amounts of news of just how deeply corrupt said government is many of them skirting around financial fraud, market manipulation, sketchy morals and obscene amounts of double speak, crafted media questions and all hidden behind secure walls up ivory towers, aberrated from large swathes of the population. It is a tough pill to swallow. What happened to medical privacy? If someone asks your medical history why should you share it, it is protected information, highly protected. It would be interesting to see peoples responses when they ask vaccination status if you reply with asking them when their last STD check was and what the results were, how was your prostate exam? Had an HIV check recently? Herpes: you're clear right? We share glasses in bars with strangers, why is no one asking if the patron next to you is checked and cleared from other health issues that can be spread? How is it so many supposed adults still can't grasp that not covering your mouth when sneezing or coughing is vile. Runners and cyclists spitting on the street still. A slappable offense at any time let alone in a global health situation. We test for TB immunity in schools to see if a person is naturally immune, we don't vaccinate those who are immune, how is this different? TB, in most senses is far more globally troublesome than CovidSars2, to this day. Many more questions need to be asked. | ||
| LessThanLuke | | ... | 27-11-2021 @ 13:58 |
his poor male ego must be crushed Member 883, 6251 posts SQ 290, BP 180, DL 420890.0 kgs @ 105kgs UnEq | Rick said: It’s only possible to believe this for adults in the light of the evidence if you think you are unlikely to be exposed to COVID. This may be true for some, but is not true in health care work. Agree to disagree. I got the vaccine for life convenience. Wouldn't have otherwise as I have very little fear of dying from Covid. I'm youngish, healthy, already had antibodies from previously getting it. You can think its a perfectly fine choice for other people and still feel like its unnecessary for yourself. | ||
| dannyboy73 | | ... | 27-11-2021 @ 15:49 |
Mask it or Casket !! Member 4600, 8166 posts SQ 240, BP 162.5, DL 255657.5 kgs @ 90.5kgs UnEq | Post Edited: 27.11.2021 @ 15:50 PM by dannyboy73 just wanted to post this:I am very reasurred to see that peoples views are far more moderate and centralist on the specific issue of mandatory vaccines than I realised... I may have miss judged people last year. Or at least got lost in communication. | ||
| dannyboy73 | | ... | 27-11-2021 @ 19:30 |
Mask it or Casket !! Member 4600, 8166 posts SQ 240, BP 162.5, DL 255657.5 kgs @ 90.5kgs UnEq | Post Edited: 27.11.2021 @ 19:34 PM by dannyboy73 Never had the flu shoot myself. However, I was invited to have one this year...man alive, that made me feel ancient.Billytheold said:When I was a kidlad comma, I used to chase the milk truck and he would give us ladkids a big chuck of tasty ice to break our teeth on! What why is this happening? When things happen that you are afraid of… Got sick getting a flu shot once! Do I still chew ice? Crack my teeth worse! That darn milkman but it was my choice back then! | ||
| Nimble | | ... | 28-11-2021 @ 02:26 |
 woefully weak Member 4748, 1506 posts SQ 157, BP 133, DL 260550.0 kgs @ 104kgs UnEq | I think there’s a decent argument for mandatory vaccinations where a vaccine has a big impact on transmission. Where, for eg., (as been done in the past) you could actually eradicate a disease. It increasingly looks like, while these vaccines make a difference in terms of danger to the individual, their effect on transmissibility isn’t significant enough for that argument to be made in this instance. The other argument (only applicable in places where there is tax-payer funded healthcare like the UK) is the “burden on the health system” one. I don’t like this argument as 1) it only makes sense when applied to at-risk groups, which has its own difficulties. 2) it would seem to equally apply to smoking, drinking, drug taking, over eating, under exercising, driving etc. etc. which for me is antithetical to the philosophy of the NHS. | ||