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SparrowIcon...22-03-2016 @ 15:18 
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always lookIng for the easy option
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luki said:
Not if your boat has a hole in it.


Gaps can be filled.

Broken boats however...
macrothIcon...22-03-2016 @ 15:18 
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Where is all this money for private education coming from? Confused
aaron_lohanIcon...22-03-2016 @ 15:39 
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Post Edited: 22.03.2016 @ 15:43 PM by aaron_lohan
Steve said:
If you accept that private education can improve a child's results, then surely there must be children who wouldn't be good enough to go to university who get the chance to go because they received a "better" education?


Yes but there would be also be many people who could have gone to university if they had been pushed harder at home, had been encouraged more or tried harder. Its like these academies you see springing up, same s**t another day, they have done little to improve standards yet have had money thrown at them by the bucketload. To improve education I think it needs a cultural shift in the attitudes by parents. Its not a case of sending your kids to school and letting them educate the kid any more than I go to train at a gym and its their responsibility to make me a champion.
aaron_lohanIcon...22-03-2016 @ 15:42 
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little_a said:
Did your traumatised by aliens mate go to university Aaron?


No, the experiments they did on him to enhance his intelligence were a complete failure.
SteveIcon...22-03-2016 @ 15:51 
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aaron_lohan said:
There would be also be many people who could have gone to university if they had been pushed harder at home, had been encouraged more or tried harder. Its like these academies you see springing up, same s**t another day, they have done little to improve standards yet have had money thrown at them by the bucketload. To improve education I think it needs a cultural shift in the attitudes by parents. Its not a case of sending your kids to school and letting them educate the kid any more than I go to train at a gym and its their responsibility to make me a champion.


I agree if you're talking about the overall level of education. However on an individual basis I've seen many children improve significantly when they have changed schools (I assume their parent's attitudes remained much the same)
SteveIcon...22-03-2016 @ 15:53 
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luki said:
I agree with this statement (apart from the genes), but I think its the exams subject matter that is at fault. Have you ever read this guy? http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/sociology/education-and-s...
In a nutshell he argues that the school exam system is dominated by upperclass values. This is because it is the dominant class in society. The literature, the arts, the law, politics, financial industry, media etc all of these are dominated by upperclass parents whose kids grow up in these traditions with the expectations of their parents.
Middleclass people are better able to fake this.
Workingclass have very little chance of succeeding in exams about upperclass culture/values.
He also argues that upperclass connections and access to books/arts/tutors maintains the dominance of the top jobs in society.


And what do upper class, middle class and working class even mean in modern British society?
macrothIcon...22-03-2016 @ 16:21 
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Steve said:
And what do upper class, middle class and working class even mean in modern British society?


They can mean several different things depending on context, but that doesn't mean they have no meaning at all.
Wayne_CowdreyIcon...22-03-2016 @ 16:38 
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little_a said:
Did your traumatised by aliens mate go to university Aaron?


I enjoyed this post.
lukiIcon...22-03-2016 @ 16:45 
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This guy is a very interesting thinker on education: http://www.pedagogyoftheoppressed.com/author/

He gives a good critique of our system of education which he describes as the "banking system of education." A banking system views people as empty vessels the tutor must forcibly jam with information. This prepares the person for a lifetime spent in this type of employ only and does not prepare the person to be a critical thinker. For me this describes much of my impression of education in school and is why I left at 17.

Freire argues that the banking system is a recent development aimed at maintaining the status quo by reinforcing stereo types in society.

He recommends that learning for intelligence starts by identifying the individuals needs and working to help them become capable of critical thought and most importantly learning how to improve their lot. In my view this is much more valuable than the regurgitation of the factoids of the day.
adillon10Icon...22-03-2016 @ 18:28 
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I'm currently doing my teacher training... I'm finding this all very interesting!
Luke82Icon...22-03-2016 @ 18:47 
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luki said:This guy is a very interesting thinker on education: http://www.pedagogyoftheoppressed.com/author/

He gives a good critique of our system of education which he describes as the "banking system of education." A banking system views people as empty vessels the tutor must forcibly jam with information. This prepares the person for a lifetime spent in this type of employ only and does not prepare the person to be a critical thinker. For me this describes much of my impression of education in school and is why I left at 17.

Freire argues that the banking system is a recent development aimed at maintaining the status quo by reinforcing stereo types in society.

He recommends that learning for intelligence starts by identifying the individuals needs and working to help them become capable of critical thought and most importantly learning how to improve their lot. In my view this is much more valuable than the regurgitation of the factoids of the day.


Well that's great. Perhaps a society of philosophers could work. Probably not. If I hire a plumber to fix my boiler I don't want his theories on the essence of water and how my need for heating is a reaction to the bourgeois conning me into thinking I cannot survive the cold without their heating. I just want him to fix my plumbing.

Not everyone is destined to be an intellectual. School isn't for creating Socrateses, who are likely born and not made, it's for getting everyone a basis of knowledge to cope through life.
scruffmcbuffIcon...22-03-2016 @ 20:17 
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Luke82 said:
Well that's great. Perhaps a society of philosophers could work. Probably not. If I hire a plumber to fix my boiler I don't want his theories on the essence of water and how my need for heating is a reaction to the bourgeois conning me into thinking I cannot survive the cold without their heating. I just want him to fix my plumbing.
Not everyone is destined to be an intellectual. School isn't for creating Socrateses, who are likely born and not made, it's for getting everyone a basis of knowledge to cope through life.


I agree with this. I believe everyone has thier place in society.
My father is a very well educated man and as a result is a consultant. I work in a verg diferent field and arguably at a much lower level.

We will always need doctors and lawyers etc but we also need street sweepers and labourers.
Why is it seen that everyone should go to uni get a degree to do well in life?
lukiIcon...23-03-2016 @ 00:10 
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Luke82 said:
School isn't for creating Socrateses... it's for getting everyone a basis of knowledge to cope through life.


I find this a really really really depressing notion.
aaron_lohanIcon...23-03-2016 @ 09:43 
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Steve said:
And what do upper class, middle class and working class even mean in modern British society?


I have read it that a working class man needs to work for a living, a middle class man has assets that he can derive an income from and an upper class man is someone of aristocracy and a large land owner.
aaron_lohanIcon...23-03-2016 @ 09:44 
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scruffmcbuff said:
Why is it seen that everyone should go to uni get a degree to do well in life?


Its Tony Blair's fault.

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