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Grizzly Bear V Silverback Gorilla , true strength !

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slow_lift_joeIconGrizzly Bear V Silverback Gorilla , true strength !25-10-2017 @ 23:20 
Interesting
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An interesting little post below :-

A 1,500 lb grizzly boar will beat a 500 lb silverback gorilla several times over. There are a number of reasons why the grizzly boar will murder the silverback gorilla, however I’ll concentrate on one of those reasons, superior strength.

Pound-for-pound, the silverback is 3-times stronger than the average man. In absolute terms, a 500 lb silverback is 10-times stronger than the average man.

In contrast, pound-for-pound the grizzly bear is 4-times stronger than the average man. In absolute terms, a 1,500 lb grizzly bear is 40-times stronger than the average man, and 4-times stronger than a 500 lb silverback gorilla.

A fight between a grizzly boar and silverback gorilla of respectively equal weights (ie 1,500 lbs bear vs 500 lb gorilla), would be like a fight between an adult human and an 8-yo child. The grizzly boar would ruin the silverback gorilla in a complete no-contest. Even if a grizzly bear is the same weight as a gorilla, it will still have the strength advantage.

Many people make the mistake of assuming that because brown bears have a lot of fat, it doesn’t have as much muscle, and by extension as much strength, as the leaner gorilla. This is the same mistake many people make when making muscle mass, muscle density, and strength comparisons between the strongman body-type and the bodybuilder body-type.

A (fat) 160 kg strongman looks to have less muscle mass than a threaded 100 kg bodybuilder. In reality, the strongman has a lot more muscle bulk and muscle density than the bodybuilder, and by extension, a lot more strength. This is the same with the grizzly bear. Fat like a strongman, but also carrying a huge amount of muscle mass and muscle density like a strongman, built for strength.

Bears also have a particularly thick, dense skeletal and ligament structure built for strength more than the gorilla, as well as a more strength-based muscle structure and muscle type.

The reason strongmen have far more fat than a bodybuilder, is because leanness and muscle bulk are mutually exclusive. The bodybuilder is working on aesthetics, which require him to be lean. The bodybuilder may look like he has lots of muscle mass, however he has actually given up a lot of muscle mass to be very lean.

If the strongman wants more muscle mass, he doesn’t want to be concentrating on becoming lean, as he would lose muscle mass, which is a loss of strength. The grizzly bear has a lot of fat and a lot of muscle mass both, and is even moreso built for strength than the gorilla is.

Make no mistake, despite the fat, a grizzly bear is HUGELY, MASSIVELY muscled. Huge thick dense muscles on a huge thick dense skeleton, fused by huge thick dense ligaments and sinews.

If anyone has any doubts as to the great awe-inspiring strength, speed and ferocity of brown bears, I suggest searching for fights between boars competing for breeding rights.

There are also some shorter, lesser scraps between sows fighting off boars going for her cubs, as well as some violent and ferocious reactions between grizzlies stealing kills from one another.

I get the impression that this question was asked to find out if the silverback gorilla could beat what is assumed to be the most dangerous land predator, under the assumption that the silverback gorilla may be a particularly powerful combat artist.

That question has been dealt with, however let’s then talk about what are the more realistic land predator contenders to the grizzly bear.

The two predators directly underneath the grizzly bear in combat effectiveness are tigers and lions. Tigers and lions are of similar weight to the gorilla, however much more powerful, effective combat artists.

These Big Cats are at combat parity with a grizzly bear when at three-quarters the grizzly’s weight. Pound-for-pound, tigers and lions are even stronger than grizzlies. Pound-for-pound, carnivores tend to out-power omnivores, as do omnivores out-power herbivores.

However when we’re talking about brown bears two, three and four times the weight of the cat, then we’re talking about a much greater dimension of power, regardless of the pound-for-pound advantage the felid possesses.

So are there any land predators that can beat the grizzly bear in combat?

Only two, and they are other brown bear types, the coastal brown bear and the Kodiak brown bear. These can grow to a little larger than their inland cousins, the grizzly bear.

The Kodiak, coastal, and grizzly bears, are all brown bears. They are in fact all the same species of bear, the brown bear.

The different brown bear types denote variations in the geographical location of the bears, which also see differences in bear size due to differences in diet. Grizzly bears, which are inland brown bears, are almost twice as small as their coastal cousins due to a diet lower in animal fats, particularly that which comes from salmon.

Polar bears are now classified as marine mammals. However that aside, polar bears can grow to even larger than brown bears. An even-larger polar bear can beat the largest brown bear.

The largest wild polar bears weigh 2,200-pounds, whereas the largest grizzly bears weigh 1,500-pounds. The largest brown bears, of Kodiak type, weigh 1,600-pounds.

Even though polar bears are classified as marine mammals and brown bears classified as land mammals, polar and brown bears can reproduce with one another. There are wild bears called Pizzlies, which are polar-brown bear hybrids.

So I think polar and brown bears aren’t as different as a theoretical distinction between land and marine mammals might suggest. And as both perform their best combat on a land surface and not in the water, I believe it’s reasonable to make combat comparisons between the two as both being land animals.

Crocodiles also grow to 2,200 pounds like the polar bear, and are more than a pound-for-pound match for bears.

Although the problem with making combat comparisons between crocodile and bear, is that crocodiles are classified as marine animals like the polar bear. However unlike the polar bear, they are out of their element fighting on land surfaces. So it may not be an accurate science making combat comparisons between crocodiles and bears, therefore I will leave the crocodile out of the reckoning.

So who then is the combat king among land predators? In my opinion, it is the polar bear. Not only do they grow larger than brown bears, but I believe they are more than a pound-for-pound match for the brown bear, based on the fact that polar bears are obligate carnivores, as opposed to brown bears, which are omnivores. Carnivores tend to be better killers than omnivores, for obvious reasons.

Following is an ordering of combat capability among average-sized wild land predators, with the addition of the gorilla (a non-predator) to show where it fits:
1.Polar bear
2.Brown bear
3.Tiger
4.Lion
5.American black bear
6.Jaguar
7.Gorilla
8.Cougar
9.Leopard
10.Spotted hyena
11.Cheetah
12.Gray Wolf
13.Bobcat
14.Coyote

As you can see, the gorilla is relatively low in the order when comparing with large land predators. As a herbivore, gorillas are pound-for-pound a poor match against proper omnivores and carnivores.

A fight between competing brown bear boars is featured in the doco-movie “Grizzly Man”, which I’ll link below. And keep in mind these boars are still a third lighter than the largest (1,500 lb) grizzly bears.
Wayne_CowdreyIcon...25-10-2017 @ 23:37 
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Sasquatch?
JohnIcon...25-10-2017 @ 23:45 
#biggef
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slow_lift_joe said:An interesting little post below :-

A 1,500 lb grizzly boar will beat a 500 lb silverback gorilla several times over. There are a number of reasons why the grizzly boar will murder the silverback gorilla, however I’ll concentrate on one of those reasons, superior strength.

Pound-for-pound, the silverback is 3-times stronger than the average man. In absolute terms, a 500 lb silverback is 10-times stronger than the average man.

In contrast, pound-for-pound the grizzly bear is 4-times stronger than the average man. In absolute terms, a 1,500 lb grizzly bear is 40-times stronger than the average man, and 4-times stronger than a 500 lb silverback gorilla.

A fight between a grizzly boar and silverback gorilla of respectively equal weights (ie 1,500 lbs bear vs 500 lb gorilla), would be like a fight between an adult human and an 8-yo child. The grizzly boar would ruin the silverback gorilla in a complete no-contest. Even if a grizzly bear is the same weight as a gorilla, it will still have the strength advantage.

Many people make the mistake of assuming that because brown bears have a lot of fat, it doesn’t have as much muscle, and by extension as much strength, as the leaner gorilla. This is the same mistake many people make when making muscle mass, muscle density, and strength comparisons between the strongman body-type and the bodybuilder body-type.

A (fat) 160 kg strongman looks to have less muscle mass than a threaded 100 kg bodybuilder. In reality, the strongman has a lot more muscle bulk and muscle density than the bodybuilder, and by extension, a lot more strength. This is the same with the grizzly bear. Fat like a strongman, but also carrying a huge amount of muscle mass and muscle density like a strongman, built for strength.

Bears also have a particularly thick, dense skeletal and ligament structure built for strength more than the gorilla, as well as a more strength-based muscle structure and muscle type.

The reason strongmen have far more fat than a bodybuilder, is because leanness and muscle bulk are mutually exclusive. The bodybuilder is working on aesthetics, which require him to be lean. The bodybuilder may look like he has lots of muscle mass, however he has actually given up a lot of muscle mass to be very lean.

If the strongman wants more muscle mass, he doesn’t want to be concentrating on becoming lean, as he would lose muscle mass, which is a loss of strength. The grizzly bear has a lot of fat and a lot of muscle mass both, and is even moreso built for strength than the gorilla is.

Make no mistake, despite the fat, a grizzly bear is HUGELY, MASSIVELY muscled. Huge thick dense muscles on a huge thick dense skeleton, fused by huge thick dense ligaments and sinews.

If anyone has any doubts as to the great awe-inspiring strength, speed and ferocity of brown bears, I suggest searching for fights between boars competing for breeding rights.

There are also some shorter, lesser scraps between sows fighting off boars going for her cubs, as well as some violent and ferocious reactions between grizzlies stealing kills from one another.

I get the impression that this question was asked to find out if the silverback gorilla could beat what is assumed to be the most dangerous land predator, under the assumption that the silverback gorilla may be a particularly powerful combat artist.

That question has been dealt with, however let’s then talk about what are the more realistic land predator contenders to the grizzly bear.

The two predators directly underneath the grizzly bear in combat effectiveness are tigers and lions. Tigers and lions are of similar weight to the gorilla, however much more powerful, effective combat artists.

These Big Cats are at combat parity with a grizzly bear when at three-quarters the grizzly’s weight. Pound-for-pound, tigers and lions are even stronger than grizzlies. Pound-for-pound, carnivores tend to out-power omnivores, as do omnivores out-power herbivores.

However when we’re talking about brown bears two, three and four times the weight of the cat, then we’re talking about a much greater dimension of power, regardless of the pound-for-pound advantage the felid possesses.

So are there any land predators that can beat the grizzly bear in combat?

Only two, and they are other brown bear types, the coastal brown bear and the Kodiak brown bear. These can grow to a little larger than their inland cousins, the grizzly bear.

The Kodiak, coastal, and grizzly bears, are all brown bears. They are in fact all the same species of bear, the brown bear.

The different brown bear types denote variations in the geographical location of the bears, which also see differences in bear size due to differences in diet. Grizzly bears, which are inland brown bears, are almost twice as small as their coastal cousins due to a diet lower in animal fats, particularly that which comes from salmon.

Polar bears are now classified as marine mammals. However that aside, polar bears can grow to even larger than brown bears. An even-larger polar bear can beat the largest brown bear.

The largest wild polar bears weigh 2,200-pounds, whereas the largest grizzly bears weigh 1,500-pounds. The largest brown bears, of Kodiak type, weigh 1,600-pounds.

Even though polar bears are classified as marine mammals and brown bears classified as land mammals, polar and brown bears can reproduce with one another. There are wild bears called Pizzlies, which are polar-brown bear hybrids.

So I think polar and brown bears aren’t as different as a theoretical distinction between land and marine mammals might suggest. And as both perform their best combat on a land surface and not in the water, I believe it’s reasonable to make combat comparisons between the two as both being land animals.

Crocodiles also grow to 2,200 pounds like the polar bear, and are more than a pound-for-pound match for bears.

Although the problem with making combat comparisons between crocodile and bear, is that crocodiles are classified as marine animals like the polar bear. However unlike the polar bear, they are out of their element fighting on land surfaces. So it may not be an accurate science making combat comparisons between crocodiles and bears, therefore I will leave the crocodile out of the reckoning.

So who then is the combat king among land predators? In my opinion, it is the polar bear. Not only do they grow larger than brown bears, but I believe they are more than a pound-for-pound match for the brown bear, based on the fact that polar bears are obligate carnivores, as opposed to brown bears, which are omnivores. Carnivores tend to be better killers than omnivores, for obvious reasons.

Following is an ordering of combat capability among average-sized wild land predators, with the addition of the gorilla (a non-predator) to show where it fits:
1.Polar bear
2.Brown bear
3.Tiger
4.Lion
5.American black bear
6.Jaguar
7.Gorilla
8.Cougar
9.Leopard
10.Spotted hyena
11.Cheetah
12.Gray Wolf
13.Bobcat
14.Coyote

As you can see, the gorilla is relatively low in the order when comparing with large land predators. As a herbivore, gorillas are pound-for-pound a poor match against proper omnivores and carnivores.

A fight between competing brown bear boars is featured in the doco-movie “Grizzly Man”, which I’ll link below. And keep in mind these boars are still a third lighter than the largest (1,500 lb) grizzly bears.


You say this but you have obviously neglected to notice the opening scenes of War for the planet of the apes where the chimps are able to kill the bear, next time do your research .lol. But seriously interesting Happy
Wayne_CowdreyIcon...25-10-2017 @ 23:47 
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Why is it all about fighting on this forum?
AMH_PowerIcon...26-10-2017 @ 08:49 
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I watched a documentary suggesting a brown bear would break a polar bears skull with a single strike but not vice versa. The polar bear has very light bones and less dense (and a smaller skull) than the brown.

The polar bear could produce 20% more impact than the brown bear but couldn't withstand half of the impact to its skull that the brown bear could.

The same programme suggested the Amur tiger is without equal, regardless of size.

Is this your own thoughts?

Also some mega awesome animals for various reasons:

Honey badger
Rainbow mantis shrimp
Zombie snail
slimsimIcon...26-10-2017 @ 09:55 
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Post Edited: 26.10.2017 @ 09:55 AM by slimsim
AMH_Power said:I watched a documentary suggesting a brown bear would break a polar bears skull with a single strike but not vice versa. The polar bear has very light bones and less dense (and a smaller skull) than the brown.

The polar bear could produce 20% more impact than the brown bear but couldn't withstand half of the impact to its skull that the brown bear could.

The same programme suggested the Amur tiger is without equal, regardless of size.

Is this your own thoughts?

Also some mega awesome animals for various reasons:

Honey badger
Rainbow mantis shrimp
Zombie snail


Those mantis shrimp are craaaaaazy bas***ds!

danbaseleyIcon...26-10-2017 @ 09:59 
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AMH_Power said:I watched a documentary suggesting a brown bear would break a polar bears skull with a single strike but not vice versa. The polar bear has very light bones and less dense (and a smaller skull) than the brown.

The polar bear could produce 20% more impact than the brown bear but couldn't withstand half of the impact to its skull that the brown bear could.

The same programme suggested the Amur tiger is without equal, regardless of size.

Is this your own thoughts?

Also some mega awesome animals for various reasons:

Honey badger
Rainbow mantis shrimp
Zombie snail


It is surely the green banded broodsac that is the interesting species - rather than the snail host?

The Mantis shrimp is an amazing creature. The fact this it can generate photoluminescence by moving the frontal appendages shows how much force they can generate.

Another one is the frogfish - it can open and close it's mouth in six milliseconds.

That is so fast, that scientists do not know exactly how it can move so quickly.
matthewvcIcon...26-10-2017 @ 10:24 
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a lot of mythology over ape strength.
i remember some dynamometer tests in the early 20th century where an enraged female chimp pulled '5x' as much as a human and from this all manner of weightlifting numbers have been extrapolated:
do you really think a chimpanzee could bench press over 1000kg? (imagine them in a 3-ply inzer shirt: 2000kgs)

found a recent article on all this.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2138714-chimps-are-not-as-supe...
danbaseleyIcon...26-10-2017 @ 10:37 
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Post Edited: 26.10.2017 @ 10:38 AM by danbaseley
matthewvc said:a lot of mythology over ape strength.
i remember some dynamometer tests in the early 20th century where an enraged female chimp pulled '5x' as much as a human and from this all manner of weightlifting numbers have been extrapolated:
do you really think a chimpanzee could bench press over 1000kg? (imagine them in a 3-ply inzer shirt: 2000kgs)


One needs only to look at how apes attack.

They typically hit, then retreat. Any animal which is hard as nails does not have to stick and move for fear of being hurt/damaged.

Primates as an order, are very fragile compared to other mammals and I don't doubt that various ursidae and panthera would steal their/our lunch money.
KevC86Icon...26-10-2017 @ 10:59 
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The 2nd best thread Sugden has had in the years ive been here.

Keep up the good work.
PaulSavageIcon...26-10-2017 @ 11:05 
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Post Edited: 26.10.2017 @ 11:09 AM by PaulSavage
1500lb? You ain't exactly talking averages here (or facts), on average a male grizzly is only about 100k more than a silverback and not even close to half that weight. I've seen both up close and silverbacks are insanely strong. I also don't care if it was 1500lb as if it was it would just be really fat and less mobile.

Why would it matter who was stronger? There's 1000lb+ humans that 135lb female mma fighters could beat up no problem. One hit from the gorilla could crack the bears skull just the same even if it wasn't stronger so doesn't really matter either. It's not like they would have a f**king powerlifting meet. It would come down to who could sink their teeth into the neck of the other.

One thing worth noting is the gorilla is smarter. Humans can kill bears easily because they are smarter, not stronger. Gorillas are a lot smarter than people think, they arnt much different than us, and in the unlikely event of the young being constantly hunted by bears (the only way these fights could happen), I think the gorillas would learn and make it in some way an unfair fight, traping the bear in some way or throwing rocks, maybe even making stabbing weapons (we have seen tools being made to get food). They would certainly have a good strategy and I think one way or another the bears would be fought off or killed otherwise.
Wayne_CowdreyIcon...26-10-2017 @ 11:21 
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Paul Savage has spoken.
matthewvcIcon...26-10-2017 @ 11:44 
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gorillas making weapons to fight bears? - there is minimal evidence of any tool making amongst them.
there is no way a gorilla could make the leap of intuition to do this '2001 a space odyssey' style.

they're (as dan baseley has said) a passive and naturally non-confrontational animal.
one-on-one against a bear, i'd favour the bear any day.
a massive carnivore that can easily decapitate a human with a few swipes and bites.
JaybukIcon...26-10-2017 @ 11:51 
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Gorillas are hype jobs they only ever beaten bums
DomRedshawIcon...26-10-2017 @ 11:52 
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too many factors other than strength imo. intelligence, speed, agility, endurance, luck and probably other things.

i saw a pride of lions lacking full grown males struggle to take down a young hippo, the hippo bit one lion n crushed its skull. an adult hippo would be tough 1 v 1 for many on that list and should be included in the ranks.

on the other end of the scale what about venomous or poisonous things like snakes etc ?

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