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martinbIconFaster Higher Stronger10-07-2012 @ 09:28 
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Anybody catch this on BBC last night? I thought it was pretty interesting seeing how things had changed over the years, the way the guys run, the way the body shape changed

Couple of things I didn't like, they suggested that Ben Johnson was the fist, and pretty much the only person to ever try and cheat to win the 100ms, and second, they suggest that the reason Bolt can run so much faster than everyone else is the length of his stride, so how is it that the guy who is beating him at the moment is a short arse (I realise he hasn't broken the world record, but I think he is the 2nd fastest ever 100 and 200?)
glen_danburyIcon...10-07-2012 @ 09:42 
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missed it unfortunately. it amuses me as you have three genetic freaks in gatling, Montgomery and johnson who broke the world record but are known users/cheats (don't like that term really) yet bolt must be clean considering his smashing their previous records!
JamieCIcon...10-07-2012 @ 22:37 
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It's the most infuriating thing, the way people assume that only a few people dope/cheat/whatever at the top levels of sport. It's like with Armstrong in the Tour. OF COURSE he was using all sorts, just like everyone else. The logic of people's argument doesn't make sense. If only a select few dope, then presumably it doesn't confer a massive advantage as the other 'clean' athletes can stil be competitive. So why dope at all? The fact is that everyone does. There's no way people can hit these times/weights/whatever without using some drugs. It is absolutely endemic. It's so irritating when people say things like, 'Bolt is so amazing, I just hope he isn't doping'. How stupid are you?

If sport were my profession, I would do everything to make sure I came out on top. If you aren't willing to, there are plenty of others who are, who will supercede you.
Luke_ReynoldsIcon...11-07-2012 @ 01:15 
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Watched a doco last night call 'the race that shocked the world', about the infamous 1988 100m final. ben johnson's name is the one synonomous with olympics and doping but 6 out of 8 of the finalists were found to have been doping and were subsequently banned for varying terms.
danbaseleyIcon...11-07-2012 @ 06:07 
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Most popular programmes have such a MASSIVELY biased view of PEDs it's not even funny. They seem to forget people were getting coked up to run and cycle in the 19th/early 20th century.

The expression "roid rage" has also been accepted in the popular press as some sort of recognised scientific condition. Confused
SteveIcon...11-07-2012 @ 07:47 
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JamieC said:It's the most infuriating thing, the way people assume that only a few people dope/cheat/whatever at the top levels of sport. It's like with Armstrong in the Tour. OF COURSE he was using all sorts, just like everyone else. The logic of people's argument doesn't make sense. If only a select few dope, then presumably it doesn't confer a massive advantage as the other 'clean' athletes can stil be competitive. So why dope at all? The fact is that everyone does. There's no way people can hit these times/weights/whatever without using some drugs. It is absolutely endemic. It's so irritating when people say things like, 'Bolt is so amazing, I just hope he isn't doping'. How stupid are you?

If sport were my profession, I would do everything to make sure I came out on top. If you aren't willing to, there are plenty of others who are, who will supercede you.


I'm completely opposite in view to this. I find it very disappointing that so many strength athletes are unable to believe anybody could possible be an elite athlete without cheating. Just because it is so prevelant in strength sports doesn't mean it is in all other sports.

If you take track cycling as an example. I find it very difficult to believe the UK government (uk sport) is helping cheats and think it would be very unlikely cyclists at a National training centre would be able to get away with anything whilst they were training there.
martinbIcon...11-07-2012 @ 08:23 
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Steve said:
I'm completely opposite in view to this. I find it very disappointing that so many strength athletes are unable to believe anybody could possible be an elite athlete without cheating. Just because it is so prevelant in strength sports doesn't mean it is in all other sports.
If you take track cycling as an example. I find it very difficult to believe the UK government (uk sport) is helping cheats and think it would be very unlikely cyclists at a National training centre would be able to get away with anything whilst they were training there.


but surely you must understand peoples scepticism?

IMO looking at the same things you are (though without your level of insight I would guess) you seem to be looking at things with an unrealistic/idealistic slant
SteveIcon...11-07-2012 @ 09:56 
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martinb said:
but surely you must understand peoples scepticism?
IMO looking at the same things you are (though without your level of insight I would guess) you seem to be looking at things with an unrealistic/idealistic slant




Perhaps I am unrealistic (I doubt I have much more insight than you). I accept that it's extremely difficult, though not impossible to do well at strength sport at an International level "clean". I'm just not convinced there's systematic cheating right across the board in all sports. Effectively it's being suggested that if you are successful you must be cheating and I find it difficult to have such a negative view of things (and do know of people who have succeeded and beaten "drugged up" lifters at World level whilst being drug free)

In weightlifting (and cycling) every couple of years there seems to be large batches of lfters caught (I assume as the testers temporarily catch up) This just doesn't happenn in other sports. Surely if drug taking was so common across all sports there would be far more people testing positive.
CuddlesIcon...11-07-2012 @ 11:02 
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JamieC said:
If sport were my profession, I would do everything to make sure I came out on top. If you aren't willing to, there are plenty of others who are, who will supercede you.


Do you do that in your current profession then? ie 'everything to make sure you came out on top'?
Tom_MartinIcon...11-07-2012 @ 11:11 
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JamieC said:It's the most infuriating thing, the way people assume that only a few people dope/cheat/whatever at the top levels of sport. It's like with Armstrong in the Tour. OF COURSE he was using all sorts, just like everyone else. The logic of people's argument doesn't make sense. If only a select few dope, then presumably it doesn't confer a massive advantage as the other 'clean' athletes can stil be competitive. So why dope at all? The fact is that everyone does. There's no way people can hit these times/weights/whatever without using some drugs. It is absolutely endemic. It's so irritating when people say things like, 'Bolt is so amazing, I just hope he isn't doping'. How stupid are you?

If sport were my profession, I would do everything to make sure I came out on top. If you aren't willing to, there are plenty of others who are, who will supercede you.


so....i presume you know what the peak level of natural physical performance is in at least every sport you are convinced is full of drug cheats...?
JCIcon...11-07-2012 @ 12:16 
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JamieC said:There's no way people can hit these times/weights/whatever without using some drugs.


and how the f**k do you know that?

There are some naturally very strong/fast freaks out there
MrSmallIcon...11-07-2012 @ 12:22 
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Steve said:
I'm completely opposite in view to this. I find it very disappointing that so many strength athletes are unable to believe anybody could possible be an elite athlete without cheating. Just because it is so prevelant in strength sports doesn't mean it is in all other sports.
If you take track cycling as an example. I find it very difficult to believe the UK government (uk sport) is helping cheats and think it would be very unlikely cyclists at a National training centre would be able to get away with anything whilst they were training there.


x2
MrSmallIcon...11-07-2012 @ 12:22 
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JC said:
and how the f**k do you know that?
There are some naturally very strong/fast freaks out there


x2
Tony_BonnerIcon...11-07-2012 @ 12:51 
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MrSmall said:
JC said:
and how the f**k do you know that?
There are some naturally very strong/fast freaks out there


x2


He didn't mean you Smalls....
shauncleggIcon...11-07-2012 @ 13:03 
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it's hard to cheat if you are british, i'm in a backwater olympic sport, been tested about 9 times this year, all randomly.. i can only imagine athletics, cycling, swimming etc are tested even more than i am.

I also think that most people think "gear" is some kind of magic bean that takes you from benching 100kg straight to 250kg. it doesn't. it gives you "they say" between 7-12% so that'd take my 130 snatch 155 clean and jerk to - 143 snatch 170 clean and jerk, I'd still get absolutely f**king smashed at any mid level international.

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