Equipped- how much extra does it give?
| MaxCooper |  | ... | 15-08-2012 @ 15:01 |
 1000 post points - NAILED Member 2026, 1344 posts SQ 195, BP 152.5, DL 235582.5 kgs @ 94kgs UnEq | not really, look at old videos of lifters alot squat with a wide stance which uses the same muscles as a wide stanced geared squat, gear also doesnt take weight off the bar as its strapped on regardless of technique 2 250kg raw squatters may have completely different equipped numbers the arguement that certain types of equiptment dont help in other sports as much is bull, saying different cycles doesnt make sense, i challenge anyone who says this to a 200km road race ill use a road racing bike you can have a BMX, despite me being fat ill win also as fazc says what is this %, will there be a raw round that doesnt count to total then equipped and you can only get 10% more than the raw squat, its not like the major suits and shirts of today are even modern: arguebly the best multi ply suit (the Inzer canvas) has been around since 2000 and the Super Phenom was i think 2003 OR what year should we go back to? and will tennis balls be allowed behind the knees if you say the 1960s? or 20m long knee wraps as was used at the first world championships? Also should we have to clean and press the barbell into position before a squat and load a treetrunk with rocks instead of using a bar and squat stands/monolift? | ||
| MaxCooper | | ... | 15-08-2012 @ 15:03 |
1000 post points - NAILED Member 2026, 1344 posts SQ 195, BP 152.5, DL 235582.5 kgs @ 94kgs UnEq | Steve said: When swim suits became too advanced and were giving the swimmers an advantage they were banned by the governing body. When cars become too fast in F1 the engine sizes were reduced and driver aids banned... - "progress" isn't always a good thing, especially when it changes the sport with different people winning than otherwise would have. BTW F1 banned engine advances as not all parties could afford the changes hence now having a cap on research budgets and number of team cars | ||
| Cuddles | | ... | 15-08-2012 @ 15:05 |
 Eat.Cycle.Sleep.Win Member 2, 12511 posts SQ 190, BP 150, DL 280620.0 kgs @ 99kgs UnEq Administrator | MaxCooper said: AND as with my point about rowers that should swim, (also works for cyclists that need to run  I think you make a really good point here, but perhaps not the one you were intending to make. A swimmer getting in a boat to row from A to B faster changes the sport from 'swimming' to 'rowing'. One doesnt cloud the other, they are two very separate sports. A runner, getting on a bike to get from A to B faster changes the sport from 'running' to 'cycling'. One doesn't cloud the other. No rower is going to claim that they swam the 2000m course in 6 minutes. No cyclist is going to claim that they ran the marathon distance time trail in 50 minutes. Powerlifters however do claim that they have benched 800lbs and squatted 1200lbs. To many, (and I'm not giving my view here) they quite simply, haven't. Powerlifting is (was) about a person, lifting a weight, from A to B under a set of rules to find out who is the strongest. To many, a squat suit or bench shirt change this to a point that they dont think that is what is being tested in equipped lifting and to them, it isn't powerlifting. I like to take a much more moderate view on this. But I can certainly see what they are saying. | ||
| Tom_Martin | | ... | 15-08-2012 @ 15:06 |
 No one believed him anyway. Member 958, 11411 posts SQ 410, BP 215, DL 4251050.0 kgs @ 100kgs UnEq | I propose.... world championships are contested over two events. You must lift in both, one unequipped and the other equipped. Subtract your unequipped total from your equipped total, to find the difference between the two. Now subtract the difference, from your unequipped total. This is your "gear whore cheating c**t adjusted add-on" Add your gear whore cheating c**t adjusted add-on to your equipped total. This number determines who wins... Examples: Lifter A has a 1000 equipped and 800 unequipped. 800 - (1000-800) + 1000 = 1600 Lifter B has a 900 equipped and 850 unequipped. 850 - (900-850) + 900 = 1700 Lifter B wins for not being a massive cheating gear asshole. started off as a joke but....actually looks really fair to me! | ||
| Cuddles | | ... | 15-08-2012 @ 15:08 |
Eat.Cycle.Sleep.Win Member 2, 12511 posts SQ 190, BP 150, DL 280620.0 kgs @ 99kgs UnEq Administrator | MaxCooper said: OR what year should we go back to? and will tennis balls be allowed behind the knees if you say the 1960s? Correct me if I'm wrong, but tennis balls under the knees was against the rules and therefore cheating. Not really the comparison you want to make with equipped lifting is it? | ||
| Fazc | | ... | 15-08-2012 @ 15:11 |
 Sports an extremely muscular arse. Member 38, 6253 posts | Steve said: When swim suits became too advanced and were giving the swimmers an advantage they were banned by the governing body. When cars become too fast in F1 the engine sizes were reduced and driver aids banned... - "progress" isn't always a good thing, especially when it changes the sport with different people winning than otherwise would have. Powerlifting doesn't have a governing body, it has split federations precisely because the interest is there. There is a reason federations like the BPC and the GPC stick around because the need and desire to compete in those federations with that gear and that equipment is very real. You don't just want to draw the line, you want to regress. We aren't talking about some supersuit somewhere on the horizon. Multiply and monolifts are right here and they're here to stay. You want all that to change, you want to change the sport. The growing numbers in these feds say otherwise. That's what people want to do, that's what people want to see. Why? Because that's powerlifting and it always has been. There was a reason that lifters originally turned to the powerlifts rather than the olympic lifts, they didn't want to deal with the raw lifts. They wanted to wrap up, belt up and see who could lift the most. Everyone can use the gear, no-one has any special access to special suits it's all on the market there is no advantage. The bottom line is the raw crowd are the ones who want to change the sport. You say you want to draw the line, but you don't you want to reverse what's already happened. Well you know what? People are very happy with the way things are. I still say if you want it to change then make your own competitions, RAW Unity etc, but don't force it on us. | ||
| IainKendrick | | ... | 15-08-2012 @ 15:12 |
 some nice relaxing jazz. Member 77, 12599 posts SQ 265, BP 165, DL 280710.0 kgs @ 93kgs UnEq | MaxCooper said: OR what year should we go back to? and will tennis balls be allowed behind the knees if you say the 1960s? or 20m long knee wraps as was used at the first world championships? Also should we have to clean and press the barbell into position before a squat and load a treetrunk with rocks instead of using a bar and squat stands/monolift? Two examples of people bending the rules is not a good start. Plus Jefferson lift is not a back squat. It merely includes a back sqaut in its sequence  Further barbells and squat stands were around way before powerlifting so lets not be silly now.As I always say people can do what they want. If they want to continue to 'progress' the sport and get a greater % of peformance from clothing then go for it. Hey we can also make bars that help on each lift or benches that help too Lift in the fed you want and have fun. However it will be a less valid strength sport than any style of powerlifting with very limited equipment.I for one truly hope that the classic/unequipped style becomes dominant. However it's got many years of equipped culture to overcome so who knows? I doubt the equipment manufactors are worried yet! | ||
| MaxCooper | | ... | 15-08-2012 @ 15:13 |
1000 post points - NAILED Member 2026, 1344 posts SQ 195, BP 152.5, DL 235582.5 kgs @ 94kgs UnEq | Post Edited: 15.08.2012 @ 15:15 PM by MaxCooper i was making the point that there was no era of perfect equiptment usage that gave a perfect percentage carryover to revert back to, people always push what they can do and IMO should aslong as they are allowed to get the highest total they canand they had to have been used before being banned or they wouldnt be banned ;p Also equipped lifters normally (if theyre not dicks) claim to have the highest Equipped total not the highest raw total aswell when they set an equipped record much in the same way as you point out a rower wouldnt claim a swimming record | ||
| IainKendrick | | ... | 15-08-2012 @ 15:16 |
some nice relaxing jazz. Member 77, 12599 posts SQ 265, BP 165, DL 280710.0 kgs @ 93kgs UnEq | Fazc said: The bottom line is the raw crowd are the ones who want to change the sport. You say you want to draw the line, but you don't you want to reverse what's already happened. Well you know what? People are very happy with the way things are. I still say if you want it to change then make your own competitions, RAW Unity etc, but don't force it on us. Nobody is forcing anything on anybody. Many people are alos not happy with this 'progress'. Even those that lift equipped. Yes, many people want to reverse the progress in equipement, in an effort to prgress the sport. Why make our own compititions? Most feds already have popular unequipped divsions and now the 2 major international feds have them too. Change may be in the air? | ||
| deleted2_20210523 | | ... | 15-08-2012 @ 15:20 |
Member 2606, 11453 posts SQ 170, BP 117.5, DL 215502.5 kgs @ 91.6kgs UnEq | deleted | ||
| IainKendrick | | ... | 15-08-2012 @ 15:20 |
some nice relaxing jazz. Member 77, 12599 posts SQ 265, BP 165, DL 280710.0 kgs @ 93kgs UnEq | MaxCooper said:i was making the point that there was no era of perfect equiptment usage that gave a perfect percentage carryover to revert back to This is not about reverting to anything, other than the ethos of finding out whose the best at the 3 lifts. There's no perfect. Just a level of equipemnt that is acceptable and relativley minor in its performance aid. Squat suits and bench shirt even in single ply fall out of this catagorey. I honestly think that multi-ply has pretty much become another sport in some feds. | ||
| Steve | | ... | 15-08-2012 @ 15:22 |
nothing to hide, please follow my life on webcam Member 255, 3732 posts | MaxCooper said: BTW F1 banned engine advances as not all parties could afford the changes hence now having a cap on research budgets and number of team cars Before freezing engine specifications, F1 had reduced engine size by 20% supposedly to cut down speed | ||
| Fazc | | ... | 15-08-2012 @ 15:26 |
Sports an extremely muscular arse. Member 38, 6253 posts | IainKendrick said:Why make our own compititions? Most feds already have popular unequipped divsions and now the 2 major international feds have them too. Change may be in the air? Because when discussing equipped powerlifting it is inevitably, just like it has been in this thread, the raw lifters who are the ones who start throwing around the "raw is the future of powerlifting" and as you've said "less valid" crap. It's an opprobriation of the sport that many of us fully enjoy and devote a lot of time to. It's old and tired. | ||
| JH | | ... | 15-08-2012 @ 15:28 |
 Member 1739, 1266 posts SQ 365, BP 245, DL 332.5942.5 kgs @ 105kgs Eq | Post Edited: 15.08.2012 @ 15:29 PM by JH kirkynick said:I asked Louie Simmons once how strong/good his lifters are compared to IPF Russian lifters. He told me his gym has produced many of the lifters who have the biggest totals out there, hence that is testiment that they are the best. He seemed peeved by the question, as if it was obvious his lifters (and US lifters) are the best. That was the impression I got, anyway. I chuckled (under my breath) a little at that. Lol Brilliant. Westside Barbell has produced and is still producing some of the best muti ply lifters, but you can't compare muti ply [WPC] and single ply [IPF] its virtually a different sport. | ||
| Steve | | ... | 15-08-2012 @ 15:30 |
nothing to hide, please follow my life on webcam Member 255, 3732 posts | MaxCooper said:Also equipped lifters normally (if theyre not dicks) claim to have the highest Equipped total not the highest raw total aswell when they set an equipped record much in the same way as you point out a rower wouldnt claim a swimming record kirkynick said:I asked Louie Simmons once how strong/good his lifters are compared to IPF Russian lifters. He told me his gym has produced many of the lifters who have the biggest totals out there, hence that is testiment that they are the best. He seemed peeved by the question, as if it was obvious his lifters (and US lifters) are the best. That was the impression I got, anyway. I chuckled (under my breath) a little at that. | ||
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